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Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

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Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#91

Post by lenerdenator »

bpt3 wrote: post #62
kstrauser wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are the official spending numbers[0]. The largest categories are: * Social Security * Medicare * National Defense * Interest payments * Health * Income Security * VA Benefits Which of those categories are we overspending on? Which specific cuts do you want to make? It's impossible for one to claim they're serious about saving money without talking about slashing Social Security, Medicare, and the military, which…

What gives you the impression we don't tax the rich? The American middle and lower class are the least taxed individuals in the developed world. The upper classes, especially given a disproportionate percentage live in places like NYC and CA, are carrying EU-levels of tax burden already. I'm certainly open to changing how things like dividend income are treated, but the rich don't have enough money to solve our budge…

> The upper classes, especially given a disproportionate percentage live in places like NYC and CA, are carrying EU-levels of tax burden already.

And?

They can afford more, and taxation is a way to reintroduce actual risk of financial ruin for the wealthy. If financial ruin is a good motivator for the rest of us, it should be for them, too.

It's not about percentage, it's about the reality that taxation brings about for you. When you have a net worth that's equal to the entire economic output of a major American city, you can endure massive tax bills because you make enough off of your holdings to equal the average lifetime earnings of dozens of Americans.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#92

Post by throw0101a »

bpt3 wrote: post #62
kstrauser wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are the official spending numbers[0]. The largest categories are: * Social Security * Medicare * National Defense * Interest payments * Health * Income Security * VA Benefits Which of those categories are we overspending on? Which specific cuts do you want to make? It's impossible for one to claim they're serious about saving money without talking about slashing Social Security, Medicare, and the military, which…

What gives you the impression we don't tax the rich? The American middle and lower class are the least taxed individuals in the developed world. The upper classes, especially given a disproportionate percentage live in places like NYC and CA, are carrying EU-levels of tax burden already. I'm certainly open to changing how things like dividend income are treated, but the rich don't have enough money to solve our budge…

> What gives you the impression we don't tax the rich?

The top tax rate perhaps:

* https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IITTRHB

Maybe just a coïncidence that inequality started going up around 1980, when it was cut the most.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#93

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bpt3 wrote: post #88
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and most state income taxes aren't as progressive as the ones in CA. That's why poor wind up paying more in flat tax states, it is simply WAI. Marginal rates don't matter as much as how much you actually pay. On paper, CA has a top rate of 12.3%...on income over 720k dollars. It exists, but it doesn't seem like a thing we should ponder too much. States only have so much power in setting tax rates, given that people…

> But the point about Europe is right, but only in the sense that Europeans don't pay nearly as much in income taxes as most Americans think they do. Why do you say this? Middle class Europeans pay significantly higher taxes than middle class Americans.

If we go by total tax burden (including VAT, sales tax, property tax, income tax):

https://taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-co...

Denmark is the highest at 45%, compared to America's 27%. Switzerland, the only European country I've lived in, is just a hair above the USA at 28/29%. UK is only a few points above that, while France is just below Denmark. So I guess it really depends?

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#94

Post by WalterBright »

jrs235 wrote: post #87
WalterBright wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just slashing staff left and right is malpractice All businesses above a certain size do that, because there's no other practical way.

Government isn't a business.

It's a very large organization, much much larger than a business. If business can't cut with a scalpel, it would be even less possible with government.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#95

Post by WalterBright »

nameless912 wrote: post #84
WalterBright wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just slashing staff left and right is malpractice All businesses above a certain size do that, because there's no other practical way.

Sure there is. _Cut initiatives_, and exit the related staff. Don't cut staff without a corresponding cut to programs.

I bet you know who the deadwood are in your organization. Every organization I've worked in had deadwood and everyone knew who they were.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#96

Post by bpt3 »

lenerdenator wrote: post #91
bpt3 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gives you the impression we don't tax the rich? The American middle and lower class are the least taxed individuals in the developed world. The upper classes, especially given a disproportionate percentage live in places like NYC and CA, are carrying EU-levels of tax burden already. I'm certainly open to changing how things like dividend income are treated, but the rich don't have enough money to solve our budge…

> The upper classes, especially given a disproportionate percentage live in places like NYC and CA, are carrying EU-levels of tax burden already. And? They can afford more, and taxation is a way to reintroduce actual risk of financial ruin for the wealthy. If financial ruin is a good motivator for the rest of us, it should be for them, too. It's not about percentage, it's about the reality that taxation brings about…

It's very convenient to sign other people up to pay for your preferred government services and I'm sure your peers are willing to eagerly pat you on the back for your generosity, but ultimately even taxing the wealthy at 100% won't cover the deficit no matter how good it would make you feel. That's the "And".

There's a reason nearly every developed nation has a VAT.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#97

Post by bpt3 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #93
bpt3 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the point about Europe is right, but only in the sense that Europeans don't pay nearly as much in income taxes as most Americans think they do. Why do you say this? Middle class Europeans pay significantly higher taxes than middle class Americans.

If we go by total tax burden (including VAT, sales tax, property tax, income tax): https://taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-co... Denmark is the highest at 45%, compared to America's 27%. Switzerland, the only European country I've lived in, is just a hair above the USA at 28/29%. UK is only a few points above that, while France is just below Denmark. So I guess it really depends?

Yes, it depends on the country. but the European average is well above the US.

Also, the US has a more progressive federal income tax code than Europe (or every other developed country), so the tax burden in the US is carried more by the upper class than it is in those other countries, resulting in the average middle class American paying significantly lower taxes than a peer in Europe.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#98

Post by bpt3 »

throw0101a wrote: post #92
bpt3 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gives you the impression we don't tax the rich? The American middle and lower class are the least taxed individuals in the developed world. The upper classes, especially given a disproportionate percentage live in places like NYC and CA, are carrying EU-levels of tax burden already. I'm certainly open to changing how things like dividend income are treated, but the rich don't have enough money to solve our budge…

> What gives you the impression we don't tax the rich? The top tax rate perhaps: * https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IITTRHB Maybe just a coïncidence that inequality started going up around 1980, when it was cut the most.

Yes, it's likely it was a coincidence given that many loopholes were closed at the same time and the effective rate wasn't changed much.

The US has the most progressive tax code in the developed world, and the average American has more disposable income than their peers anywhere else on Earth. Why is it that the upper class is the only one that needs to kick in more?

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#99

Post by acdha »

bpt3 wrote: post #97
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we go by total tax burden (including VAT, sales tax, property tax, income tax): https://taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-co... Denmark is the highest at 45%, compared to America's 27%. Switzerland, the only European country I've lived in, is just a hair above the USA at 28/29%. UK is only a few points above that, while France is just below Denmark. So I guess it really depends?

Yes, it depends on the country. but the European average is well above the US. Also, the US has a more progressive federal income tax code than Europe (or every other developed country), so the tax burden in the US is carried more by the upper class than it is in those other countries, resulting in the average middle class American paying significantly lower taxes than a peer in Europe.

Most of that difference disappears when you consider insurance premiums and retirement, however. I compared a few countries when a Danish mentioned that they weren’t really seeing a huge difference and you have to be in the top few percentiles for high American healthcare costs not to cancel out the tax savings, and by their account it was a far less stressful process to get care as well.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#100

Post by acdha »

blindriver wrote: post #80
buttercraft wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the appropriate number to hire, and how do arrive at the answer?

No new headcount. Layoff the bottom 5% of the institution per year based on performance reviews and replace them with new hires. When someone leaves, replace every 3 people leaving with 1 new hire.

This is a good way to destroy productivity and morale, but if that’s not your goal you need to expect your managers to earn their pay.

Laying off the bottom 5% presumes that you’re measuring that accurately and that individual workers have control over their productivity, both of which are unlikely to be true - and if you get either wrong, you just incentivized playing political games and shying away from work which is hard, uncertain, or under-weighted by your metrics. Stack ranking almost destroyed the ability of Microsoft and Google to make anything people love, and you can see its cost in the unperformed maintenance work people know won’t juice their metrics.

Similarly, if people are leaving because you have too much work, poor working conditions, don't pay well enough, etc. capping rehiring is just going to make the situation worse.

If you’re not a PE guy looking to juice a company before dumping it, cost cutting has to be a process of understanding and identifying your true goals first. If you’ve truly over-hired, the first lesson to draw is that you have a management problem which you need to deal with first since it will make everything else likely to fail as well.

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