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EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

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Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen (and worked in) a number of startups that did receive research grants including AI research in Germany. This notion of terrible European bureaucracy is exaggerated. It’s not worse than anywhere else in the world.

I've helped the EU Funds departments at my previous employer with auctions participation and other similar checkbox ticking exercises, they're impossible to navigate for regular companies. I suppose the amount of red tape depends on the type of grant. In my case, I once helped with national level grants to enhance the border protection systems, deployment throughout an entire country. The amount of time and effort to…

>none of the auctions or checkbox ticking exercises would have been manageable by startups

Generally startups should not be in government supply chain unless it is explicitly permitted / requested. They are by definition too risky for public to rely on their services, so it's ok that they cannot pass the checkbox ticking exercise. In rare cases where their presence is desirable (e.g. to boost innovation or find radically new solutions), government can always step in and offer them sherpa service (as it usually happens) to go through the paperwork.

Whether the whole regulation is necessary, is another question. I think it does, but the process must be more cost-efficient. It can be. I have seen in some places how the government has put focus on bureaucratic efficiency and it worked, but that often means a strategic horizon of a few decades, which is not within the reach of most democracies today: you need a stable government and public consensus.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#93

EU can always get a discount on that once they ratchet up regulations. I don’t understand Europe, why don’t they just focus on hyper growth with limited oversight like America?

Because people in Europe are generally scared of a free market without strong social security, but believe in government oversight (no matter how often it fails).

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#94
post #70
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that if we don't invest into defense, war would still likely break-out, but we may suffer less (or die less) because of a quick loss. Now we have a weak army in the EU, if Russia invades one of our friends, then the war will be over in two days because France, Germany, USA will do their usual "we condemn blablabla, we send you prayers and sympathy", but there would be no long-lasting war. A bit similar t…

If you think that with russians rolling over whole Europe the only thing changing is to whom you pay taxes that's a grave mistake on your understanding and borderline insulting to those of us like me who grew up under direct soviet cough cough russian oppression and have their parent's lives very effectively ruined by it. Ever wondered why eastern part of EU is so vastly different to western EU regarding mentality? W…

For now, I see (from the EU perspective) that the presidents of the US (Donald Trump and Elon Musk), are absolutely unreliable partners, and that the EU is alone with the problems.

France population is never going to war, Germany also, Italy also, etc, to me it sounds like something that Russia may see as an opportunity.

The best in this situation (like it was with the soviets situation you described) is to prepare a plan to not be stuck in the cross-fires, because it's not the politicians in their plushy beds in Brussels or in Moscow that are suffering.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#95
Maybe they host it on Gaia-X, the failed attempt to compete with AWS and other US cloud providers. Money burns quickly when you give it to EU megacorps that are experienced getting EU subsidies.

In the end, even if there is some moderate success, the EU won't be able to keep the AI researchers because the high tax rates hit hard when you earn top salaries.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not? we’ll be throwing rainbow flags at Russians when they decide to invade?

The only current threat to EU territory is from USA to Greenland. There is no threat from Russia, as Ukraine certainly isn't part of EU and Russia has never shown hostility to EU, except in retaliation from EU hostile acts. So I would agree we need to become capable of defending ourselves, but to do so we should very quickly normalize and reestablish friendly relations with Russia and China, then make ourselves econo…

> Russia has never shown hostility to EU

In some parallel reality, perhaps it's so. In this world, Russia has been remarkably hostile for a very long time, to the point where the entire 1300 km border between Finland and Russia - except for one crossing for freight trains - remains closed since 2023, because Russia ferried migrants from the Middle East and Africa to the Artic circle and forced them to cross the border into Finland to destabilize the country.[1]

This kind of hybrid attack was launched on even a larger scale against Poland, by Belarus, with Russian support once again.[2][3]

Not to mention smaller acts such as desecration of memorial sites in Latvia[4], vandalizing the car of Estonian interior minister[5], and smuggling incendiary devices on board of DHL cargo planes[6].

Greenland belongs to Denmark, and just today, Danish intelligence (FE) issued a new threat assessment[7]:

  According to FE, Russia is undergoing significant military reforms aimed not only at sustaining operations in Ukraine but also at preparing for potential engagements with NATO countries. /---/ While the report does not conclude that a large-scale war in Europe is inevitable, it warns that such a scenario is increasingly plausible if NATO does not reinforce its military posture. The findings indicate that European countries must accelerate their defence efforts to prevent Russia from exploiting weaknesses in the alliance.
[1] https://yle.fi/a/74-20141931

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus%E2%80%93European_Union...

[3] https://www.dw.com/en/poland-baltics-step-up-border-controls...

[4] https://vdd.gov.lv/en/news/press-releases/vdd-requests-crimi...

[5] https://www.dw.com/en/estonia-detains-10-russians-suspected-...

[6] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07912lxx33o

[7] https://eutoday.net/russian-threat-beyond-ukraine/

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#97
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK and France(along with the US) have nukes, so it's a much different scenario than WW2.

But will the UK and France bail out Germany? Yes: if Germany acts as a serious and honest partner in defence. No: if Germany refuses to be a responsible security player and swings back to Russia as soon as it can. If Germany reopens the gas pipelines and throws the balts to the wolves I think that they may find that when they need help, there will be no help. Also the UK and France have very limited nuclear capabilit…

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Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#98
post #55

Meanwhile Europe still doesn't have a cloud hyperscaler, so most of these €200B will end up in the coffers of Amazon, Google and Microsoft, the real winners.

I've been thinking recently this is where the EU should start. I don't know if it could be achieved with some top-down initiative, but it would definitely need investment to become one day competitive against the US providers.

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#99
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only current threat to EU territory is from USA to Greenland. There is no threat from Russia, as Ukraine certainly isn't part of EU and Russia has never shown hostility to EU, except in retaliation from EU hostile acts. So I would agree we need to become capable of defending ourselves, but to do so we should very quickly normalize and reestablish friendly relations with Russia and China, then make ourselves econo…

> Russia has never shown hostility to EU In some parallel reality, perhaps it's so. In this world, Russia has been remarkably hostile for a very long time, to the point where the entire 1300 km border between Finland and Russia - except for one crossing for freight trains - remains closed since 2023, because Russia ferried migrants from the Middle East and Africa to the Artic circle and forced them to cross the borde…

> desecration of memorial sites in Latvia

Oh, you mean the monument to nazi collaborators?

All of this happened after the EU started sending weapons to Ukraine for the purpose of killing Russians, sanctioning Russia heavily, freezed $300 billions in assets, not to mention the destruction of northstream 2. Reciprocal hostility is perfectly normal.

None of these actions is severe enough that we can't establish friendly relations again, to our mutual benefit.

> Greenland belongs to Denmark, and just today, Danish intelligence (FE) issued a new threat assessment[7]:

DUH. They're facing the collective military industry and intelligence of NATO in Ukraine, there have been multiple threats from France and UK of sending their troops in Ukraine, prominent EU officials have been publicly talking about balkanizing Russia and you expect Russia to not prepare to face those threats? They'd be stupid not do it.

This is ridiculous. It's like poking a bees nests and then complaining about their aggressiveness when they react. How about you stop poking first?

Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI

#100
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the basis then? Who should we listen to, Von Der Leyen?

We should probably consider the policies and weigh their pros and cons.

A good rule of thumb for me is to never listen people who profit from war when they tell you we need to prepare for war.
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