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Don't Be Frupid

selix.net

91–100 of 134 posts

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#91

> except no one factors in that without it, engineers will burn hundreds of hours manually wrestling with tasks that a good automation could have handled in minutes I agree with the general concept, but the example in the article are so extremely exaggerated that it’s hard to take the article seriously. A $15 tool that would save hundreds of hours of tasks? A conference visit that would save millions? Anyone who has…

> A $15 tool that would save hundreds of hours of tasks?

An example: Figma [0]

[0] https://fasterthanli.me/articles/just-paying-figma-15-dollar...

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#92
post #87
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the author owe you a good, analytical argument? You were able to respond to it with your own experience easily enough. That's usually how conversations like these work.

I don't understand what exactly you're criticizing GP for or what you'd like them to do differently. And then: do they owe you whatever you'd like them to do? Do you owe anybody a clearer argument? How many people do I owe time for reading this comment? I feel like you opened a can of mirrors. ;)

I'll just say that, when broken down into three parts, the middle part effectively engages with the post and is a valid contribution all on its own, and the first and last bits just seem pretty pointless criticisms.

The parent poster isn't exactly responding with their own thoroughly analysed thesis.

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#93
post #92
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what exactly you're criticizing GP for or what you'd like them to do differently. And then: do they owe you whatever you'd like them to do? Do you owe anybody a clearer argument? How many people do I owe time for reading this comment? I feel like you opened a can of mirrors. ;)

I'll just say that, when broken down into three parts, the middle part effectively engages with the post and is a valid contribution all on its own, and the first and last bits just seem pretty pointless criticisms. The parent poster isn't exactly responding with their own thoroughly analysed thesis.

Thanks for clarifying!

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#94
suboptimization; learned about this in engineering school 40 years ago: don't optimize the most visible parameter by itself, or you'll likely end up crashing. why do we have to freaking rename everything?

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#95
The person with an issue should gather data and make a case for the investment. Sounds like they’re at a company where a vibes based case won’t fly, so it needs to be a business level case. These talk of resources saved/gained, ie. $$$ and time.

It’s not too different to a design doc. Design doc proposes a solution and details the investment needed to bring it into existence.

Main difference is the additional need to communicate why there is a problem - but most design docs restate this at the top anyway.

Maybe making a case for a change will show the org some previously untracked info, eg. time wasted. And maybe that was not known previously and surfacing it leads to rapid change. But be wary because maybe making your case will cause you to learn things you didn’t know. You might make your case and learn there are reasons for the frugality that you weren’t privy to and now are. But going through the process will either way better align your priorities to the org’s and vice versa.

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#96

I feel like I could sum up this article as "give engineers everything they want, they're expensive!" TBH, I hate articles like this, not because I disagree with the general thesis, but because they present things in a way that is so one-sided that it is either ignorant or willfully blind to the other side of the equation. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that cost cutting or being stingy with resources can be counterprodu…

> 3. "Infrastructure Sabotage" - this is the one that I think annoyed me the most, because I've seen cloud costs explode where hardly anyone had a good grasp on where that money was going.

On the other hand, I worked in a place where the Change Request -> code review -> merge pipe took ~two days on average, and could sometimes span over a week, all because of ridiculous penny-pinching on infra. The CI build itself took 1.5h of which > 60% was testing. That was understandable, if not ideal. The problem was, however, that the whole infrastructure could support evaluating maybe 5-6 builds in parallel (20-ish runners, each build typically consuming 3 or 4, depending on type and platform configurations), and that was shared with automated tests (that run nightly), as well as all kinds of one-off release builds for QA, manual builds, etc. So it took two or three changesets being built in parallel before the next one had to wait on bots to become available.

Add to that a few flaky tests that would fail one of the builds for your changesets about 30% of the time for spurious reasons, and people submitting more patches (= more build jobs) in response to review feedback, and you can imagine what it did to work cadence. To top it off, there was a cultural push for "best practices" of small and frequent changes; of course doing that basically meant you were submitting changes faster than they were built, DOS-ing the build system for everyone else.

And, lord forgive you if you tried to submit a stack of commits at the same time. My co-worker and I both independently discovered that if you do a big enough stack (working on a large feature, broken down for reviewability), say 7-9 commits, not only you'll saturate the build system, but apparently OpenStack or whatever it was managing it would run out of resources and cascade failures to some other systems elsewhere in the company, because of course it would do that.

I've fought to get this improved since almost day 1 on that team, but it was always met with reactions from IT (later, "devops") along the lines of: "what is your problem?" or "yes, I know, but we don't have the budget" (seriously? compute is, and was then, almost too cheap to meter), and eventually stringing us along with half a year of "we're migrating to $BigCloudProvider, afterwards we'll have plenty of compute", which ultimately never happened before I left.

So I've seen first-hand how ffrupid (double "f" is intentional) otherwise smart companies with large budgets can get with compute for devs, even as this wasn't just destroying morale and preventing the team from adopting some good practices, it was actively slowing down project work, delaying both scheduled releases and emergency fixes.

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#97

> except no one factors in that without it, engineers will burn hundreds of hours manually wrestling with tasks that a good automation could have handled in minutes I agree with the general concept, but the example in the article are so extremely exaggerated that it’s hard to take the article seriously. A $15 tool that would save hundreds of hours of tasks? A conference visit that would save millions? Anyone who has…

> A $15 tool that would save hundreds of hours of tasks?

Not a software tool, but a $15 VPS on Hetzner or such would absolutely save hundreds of hours of tasks in the case I described here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43000114

Even better, you could add a few more $15 boxes to quintuple the savings before it would make sense to look for another thing to improve. And better still, $15 is just a generic VPS price I pulled off the top of my head, you could do it cheaper if you tried.

They didn't even want to try.

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At one job I had in Sweden, conference trips abroad were a way to give engineers a reward that wasn't taxed at 60-80%. I enjoyed my trips, but I learned very little.

What kinds of rewards were these that are not taxed?

Business travel is not taxable for the employee.

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#99
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinds of rewards were these that are not taxed?

Business travel is not taxable for the employee.

Okay, but how is that a reward? Maybe I wrongfully assumed we were talking about a money / material reward here.

Re: Don't Be Frupid

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet you think all people do is spin up a bunch of VMs on AWS or the other cloud providers.

I'll bet that's what most startups do.

I bet you as someone who has worked for startups that’s not true especially since every startup is trying to do something with “AI” these days
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