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Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

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Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#91

Post by michaelsbradley »

taurknaut wrote: post #66
argentier wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chesterton described Aquinas as looking quite like Chesterton. Judging by the name at least half a millenium separates Myron Shibley from Aquinas. Can't it just be a myth, as it seems to hang on a single anecdote? For comparison, the medievals thought that Ovid's name, Publius Ovidius Naso, was because he had a good nose for sniffing out the truth.

> Chesterton described Aquinas as looking quite like Chesterton. I was unaware that Chesterton met Aquinas! He must have been quite old at that point. I can't imagine anything that Chesterton could add to this conversation. He's reading the same texts the rest of us are. TBH this pretty much sums up his entire career.

Tastes differ, certainly.

Have you read any of Chesterton’s novels, e.g. The Man Who Was Thursday?

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#92

Post by taurknaut »

michaelsbradley wrote: post #91
taurknaut wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chesterton described Aquinas as looking quite like Chesterton. I was unaware that Chesterton met Aquinas! He must have been quite old at that point. I can't imagine anything that Chesterton could add to this conversation. He's reading the same texts the rest of us are. TBH this pretty much sums up his entire career.

Tastes differ, certainly. Have you read any of Chesterton’s novels, e.g. The Man Who Was Thursday ?

Yes, he's an amazing writer regardless of his target. I primarily think of his christian apologetic work, though, hence why I was teasing his obsession with western (and particularly christian) text.

I love Chesterton. I was just ribbing him. It's not terribly difficult.

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#93

Post by beardyw »

ec109685 wrote: post #88
beardyw wrote: post #32

People's faces are very rarely that symmetrical which raises doubt in my mind.

There isn’t enough accuracy in the reconstruction process to be sensitive to subtle asymmetries in someone’s face. It’d be completely making that part up.

But isn't the symmetry just as much made up?

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#94

Post by kjs3 »

kenjackson wrote: post #76
Rebelgecko wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how standards for body size can change over even shorter time periods. I was watching an old game show with Bob Barker and one of the competitions was for people to guess stats about the "average" man, and then run around Hollywood looking for a man who matched that description. So each competitor would guess the average age, height, number of kids, etc. One woman guessed that the average man weighed 180 p…

During the Super Bowl they put up a stat about the size of the average lineman in SB 1 vs now. In SB1 they were 6’3” and about 248lbs (something like that). And now they are 6’6” and 330lbs. That old OLine gets killed in P5 college football now.

I noticed that as well. Cool stat. And they aren't just big...a lot of them are scary fast. Having a guy like Tylan Grable (6'6, 310) or Tanor Bortolini (6'4, 305) running after you with a sub-5s 40 at the combine has to be terrifying.

When I was in college in the mid-80s, one of my fraternity brothers was a scholarship linebacker. A big, fast, strong man. He goes back every couple of years for the big 'meet the new players' event for those associated with the athletic association. He said that if he was that 18yo again in 2025, not only would he not be considered for a D1 scholarship, but he probably couldn't have made the practice squad of our D1 team. He'd be looking hopefully at someplace like Albany State or West Alabama for a scholarship.

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#95

Post by kjs3 »

TheFreim wrote: post #57
masswerk wrote: post #44

Isn't this reconstruction a bit on the slim side? Aquinas was reportedly, let's say, a man of portly presence. I can't find a scholarly source on the matter, at the moment, but here are two quotes I found on the website of a nun[1] (no less, so probably written in good faith): > St. Thomas was a huge heavy bull of a man, fat and slow and quiet; very mild and magnanimous but not very sociable; shy, even apart from the…

The idea that St. Thomas Aquinas was "portly" or even obese is likely an exaggeration that occurred over time due to overemphasis of certain aspects of his appearance. Early accounts depict him as being both very tall and strong having a big head , often with a build closer to a wrestler or football player than that of an obese man. As far as I can tell, St. Thomas was certainly an imposing figure but people have dec…

For example, one of the earliest works covering St. Thomas' life was written by William de Tocco in the early 14th century....The iconographic tradition is also not uniform, with large variation across the centuries.

Isn't that kinda the point, tho? de Tocco was writing, what, about 50 years after Aquinas passed, and while he certainly could have (probably had?) first hand sources of Aquinas life, my instinct is that even so these are the sorts of passages of time where objective fact becomes muddled with both nostalgia and agenda, if not outright politics & intrigue. And over extended time, like most notable historical figures, Aquinas is reframed to suit the narrative of the time. I mean, it's not like Livy saying "that thing that happened a couple of centuries ago? This is how it went down, no doubts.", but isn't the real answer "we don't know and probably never will" for most of these questions of minutia like 'how fat was he, really'?

N.B. - not intending to distract from your very informative post.

Re: Thomas Aquinas' skull reveals appearance and cause of death

#96

Post by AStonesThrow »

clarionbell wrote: post #39
lqet wrote: post #26

> “Now, it could be that on the whole we’re a lot larger now than even overweight medievals were, or that St. Thomas was never the portly friar described by his legend,” Father Aquinas quipped, adding, “Regardless, the stories of St. Thomas’ size are probably exaggerated.” According to Martin Luther (who may have had an interest in discrediting him), Thomas Aquinas was able to devour an entire goose, and a piece of h…

Yep, definitely not a slander there. I mean, why would Luther of all people have a problem with one of most important figures of Catholic scholasticism.

Another aspect to consider is that St. Thomas was an O.G. Dominican friar, the order which was founded with a mission to answer the heresy of Albigensians and Catharists, who were going extreme ascetic, believing the human flesh and visible world were inherently evil, and ceasing to marry and bear children.

The Dominicans wearing white and black answer that pleasures can be enjoyed in moderation, and were given by God to help ease our suffering and make life enjoyable, and it's not universally wrong to enjoy rich food, or start families and grow them. Or harness lightning and take minerals from the ground and make them into new things to serve or benefit the human world.

So Aquinas' own confreres wouldn't be shy about describing his stoutness and ability to devour geese twice a year, and it wasn't for nothing that an army came later to massacre the adversaries and quell the heresy from spreading for a few hundred years. There were contagions to deal with and masks to be worn.

Jubilee Years began again in the 14th century after Thomas and before Martin Luther. Jubilees are still decreed and proclaimed every 25 years, plus extras.

Such as 1525: https://gcatholic.org/events/celebration/1524.htm#839

Francis I of France ran into trouble against Spanish Emperor Charles in those days: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_I_of_France#Military_a...

1925, 1950, 1975, 2000, etc. See Old Testament for examples among Hebrews and Judaica. Or listen to The Police's greatest hits: https://www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/The-Police/King-of-Pain

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