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Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

chriszf.posterous.com

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Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#91

Post by caladri »

chriszf wrote: post #11
FuzzyDunlop wrote: post #7

> But here I was, helpless. The only thing I could do was direct her to BART and join the rest of the class inside ... or pull the class out and refuse to attend it out of principle?

I had another 9 students inside, and the talk was worthwhile for them. Furthermore, the problem was not with the organizers (who were generous and accommodating) or the speakers (who were similarly generous), but with the venue. Nothing would have been solved by protesting: I'm not important enough that anyone would have noticed.

Your problem is actually with the organizers. You don't care a bit about random venues except for where organizers of events you are likely to attend decide to use them, I would guess. Therefore, if you have a problem with the venue, you should take it to the organizers, and take it up with them at the time, e.g. by leaving with your student, because wrangling the venue is what they're doing as organizers setting up an event.

Other venues are much more reasonable about this sort of thing. I have a friend who is banned from all Microsoft buildings, including non-Microsoft events hosted by Microsoft. He was informed clearly in writing, and knew the reason for his being banned. That makes Microsoft-operated venues more appealing (on at least this axis) than Yelp ones, since organizers of an event can't be sure that attendees will actually be able to enter. In the Microsoft case, at least a person seemingly knows whether they can attend.

Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#92

Post by wpietri »

dustingetz wrote: post #15

Standard practice in Manhattan and Philadelphia at most office high-end office buildings. this is the world Americans live in. Yelp isn't in the business of protecting civil liberties. edit: standard practice to deny entry to non-badged persons who aren't on a pre-submited event guestlist. i've seen this, for example, at every tech meetup held in a downtown office building i've ever been to in Manhattan and Philadelp…

> Yelp isn't in the business of protecting civil liberties.

Why yes! Why would a company built on freedom of expression, freedom of association, and net neutrality care about civil liberties?

Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#93

Post by brigade »

dfxm12 wrote: post #84
brigade wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly more than two facts in those 500 words. Some relevant ones: 1. chriszf wasn't aware of the guest list requirement at the gate 2. No one at Yelp told him of this in response to his inquiries 3. Yelp was provided with a guest list 4. The security guard said "undisclosed security risk", not "not on the list" 5. Everyone except this student got in without a hitch 6. chriszf came to the conclusion that…

chriszf is an idiot Your words, not mine. There are many reasons for a name to not be on a guest list. I never implied anyone was an idiot. Not one of the items listed confirm whether or not student x's name is on the list. chriszf was able to come to the conclusion you state because chriszf had more information than was written in the blog post.

But why did you come to the conclusion that only possible problem was that she absolutely must not have been on the guest list, when the entire point of the post was that Yelp was excluding people based solely on their name?

I am genuinely curious.

Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#94

Post by mikeash »

pyre wrote: post #81
cschmidt wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that is the underlying issue. Yelp is fundamentally a protection racket. "Those are some real nice reviews you have there - it would be a real shame for something to happen to them." I imagine that there are lots of business owners that would be a security risk. I wonder if Yelp people ask themselves if they might be doing something bad if people want to do them bodily harm.

> I wonder if Yelp people ask themselves if they > might be doing something bad if people want to do > them bodily harm. They don't have to be doing something wrong for people to want to harm them.

Most of the time, if people want to physically hurt you, you're either doing something really bad, or really good. I don't think Yelp falls into the "really good" category.

Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#95

Post by droithomme »

chriszf wrote: post #11
FuzzyDunlop wrote: post #7

> But here I was, helpless. The only thing I could do was direct her to BART and join the rest of the class inside ... or pull the class out and refuse to attend it out of principle?

I had another 9 students inside, and the talk was worthwhile for them. Furthermore, the problem was not with the organizers (who were generous and accommodating) or the speakers (who were similarly generous), but with the venue. Nothing would have been solved by protesting: I'm not important enough that anyone would have noticed.

What if they refused to let her in because she was black?

Here they are practically claiming she is a terrorist. The principle is the same.

By sending her out you validate their discrimination, which is based on falsehoods and lies.

Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#96

Post by droithomme »

pretz wrote: post #85

I work for Yelp, and it sounds like we screwed up. Apologies that we weren't able to get this woman into the MySQL event. We're obviously reviewing our security procedures to make sure they are more sane and sensitive for next time.

Please state what criteria you use for banning people.

Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#97

Post by pyoung »

Vivtek wrote: post #73
pyoung wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although if you really think about it, what other option does yelp have. It's not like yelp is going to get the NSA to do a bunch of wiretapping, or hire sleuths to dig up the social security numbers of the irate business owners. If they think there are serious security risks, then it is prudent for them to be extra cautious, and they have to work within the means that are available to them (i.e. no NSA type stuff, j…

Although if you really think about it, what other option does yelp have. Have a competently professional security policy with recourse to appeal at the door if they're going to host events for people? Or, you know, just look like amateurs.

Yelp is not in the personnel security business, so I don't think they really care what you think about the security policy of their building (which is most likely supplied by a third party contractor anyway, as is the case in my building, and most others).

What it really comes down to if you don't like their policy, don't host your meetup there.

Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#98

Post by toomuchcoffee »

I pressed further, and they informed me that she could not be let in because she was an "undisclosed security risk."

Y'know, it might just be some poorly-paid security drone reading blindly from some poorly articulated status message on some crappy security desk app.

So instead of something tactful and polite like "Not on the guest list", the applicable field got set to NULL, which bubbled up as "Reason: Unknown".

Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#99

Post by larsberg »

I realize these decisions are hard to make on the spot, but it's important to grab everybody and pull them out on the spot. As a teacher (or me in a previous life, as a manager --- also of adults), when you disagree very strongly with the ethics of actions of others, I found it both personally and team-wise rewarding to react decisively in front of my team so they'd get the message.

This applies to not only strange security, but harassment, unethical behavior, and other inappropriate actions.

Trust me from personal experience, you'll never regret it, and as you get older, the retelling will only get _more_ enjoyable, both for you and those who were there to see you blow up. On both sides, so long as you keep it professional.

Re: Apparently Yelp has a no-fly list

#100

Post by larsberg »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #10
FuzzyDunlop wrote: post #7

> But here I was, helpless. The only thing I could do was direct her to BART and join the rest of the class inside ... or pull the class out and refuse to attend it out of principle?

Yelp wasn't gaining anything by people attending. The attendees were gaining by attending (I would love to hear how Pinterest scaled). Should the whole class be punished for Yelp's stupidity? Now, if Yelp gained anything other than "they gave us a spot to meet", I would agree with you 100%. I would give them no benefit for being moronic.

Yes it was; Yelp is recruiting.

Yelp's stupidity can teach your whole class about the importance of working for conscientious, thoughtful corporations. Arguably, that's a more valuable lesson than whatever tricks pinterest used to scale (but I'm old, so take that with a grain of salt).

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