Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

swift.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 300 posts

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#91

Post by catgary »

Cyph0n wrote: post #76
Pesthuf wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you follow the advice here >Stack dump without symbol names (ensure you have llvm-symbolizer in your PATH or set the environment var `LLVM_SYMBOLIZER_PATH` to point to it): ?

What if the error was more descriptive out of the box? Unless of course the goal is to just compete with C++ error reporting.

The goal is to probably avoid duplicating efforts when llvm-symbolize already exists.

There’s obviously a snarky comment to make here about Go developers and duplicating efforts.

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#92

Post by kelnos »

threeseed wrote: post #64
tempodox wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like Swift is being held hostage by Apple. I can't get get the next version of Swift, because it's being distributed with a higher version of Xcode that only runs on an OS version I don't want to install (yet), and even if I did, I'd first have to buy a new Mac for that. That trick seems to work with enough developers to make Apple ever more rich and powerful and even more arrogant (if that's possible at all),…

> I'd first have to buy a new Mac for that Which means you are running Mojave and your Mac is at least 6 years old. I wouldn't expect anyone to support developers who are running a two generation old OS.

I can run the latest version of my OS of choice on hardware twice that old.

This is only a problem that Apple has created to help them sell hardware. These days, a 6-year-old laptop is still a perfectly capable machine.

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#93

Post by tamlin »

IshKebab wrote: post #74
homarp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you remember who was the 'top GNOME developer'?

Probably talking about Miguel de Icaza. I think his history is wrong though. I don't recall any talk of rewriting GNOME in C# - they were all about their pet language Vala. And Miguel started Mono way before Microsoft made C# cross-platform. At that point they were antagonists.

Microsoft had a research version of the CLR called Rotor (2002) that predated Mono (2004). Rotor built for Windows, FreeBSD, and macOs, albeit with a not-very-open license.

When Mono came along, the internal position at Microsoft was surprisingly positive. There was a dev slide deck that went into Mono in some depth. And a telling slide that said it wasn't a threat because the performance wasn't competitive at the time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_Source_Common_Languag...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_(software)

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#94

Post by codr7 »

kelnos wrote: post #85
uhura wrote: post #36

I believe that this long game of Swift being "good for everything" but "better for Apple platforms" will be detrimental to the language. This does not help the language nor seems to bring more people to the ecosystem. Competitors seems to have a combination of: - Being more open-source - Have more contributors - Have a narrower scope Maybe they should consider open sourcing all the tooling (like Xcode) otherwise the…

This feels similar to C# and Microsoft's other CLR/.NET languages. Sure, they've broken away a bit and aren't exclusively used to run things on MS platforms, but still. And Swift is even more tied to Apple, at least to my inexperienced eye. I'm not really an Apple person (Linux, Android), even though I once really enjoyed their hardware... Swift is so far down on my list of languages to look at that I probably will n…

Sorry to hear that, I wouldn't bet anything on Apple but the core language contains a lot of good ideas imho.

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#95

Post by [deleted] »

Pesthuf wrote: post #66
alain_gilbert wrote: post #60

Swift is a really cool language. But one thing that blows my mind is that if you ever encounter an "index out of range" error, the (massive) error message that you get doesn't tell you anything about where this error occurred... no line number... no nothing... let a = [1] print(a[1]) Is all you have to do to reproduce the error. The error looks something like that https://pastebin.com/MQV82SaR And gives you no useful…

What if you follow the advice here >Stack dump without symbol names (ensure you have llvm-symbolizer in your PATH or set the environment var `LLVM_SYMBOLIZER_PATH` to point to it): ?

[deleted]

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#96

Post by tempodox »

rescripting wrote: post #54
tempodox wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like Swift is being held hostage by Apple. I can't get get the next version of Swift, because it's being distributed with a higher version of Xcode that only runs on an OS version I don't want to install (yet), and even if I did, I'd first have to buy a new Mac for that. That trick seems to work with enough developers to make Apple ever more rich and powerful and even more arrogant (if that's possible at all),…

This isn’t true, you can get the next version of Swift by downloading a pkg installer from https://www.swift.org/install/macos/ You can get it bundled with Xcode as well if you’d like, but it’s not necessary.

But you cannot run the product on an iDevice and a build for Mac Catalyst isn't even possible. “Bundled with Xcode” is very much necessary.

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#97

Post by alain_gilbert »

Pesthuf wrote: post #66
alain_gilbert wrote: post #60

Swift is a really cool language. But one thing that blows my mind is that if you ever encounter an "index out of range" error, the (massive) error message that you get doesn't tell you anything about where this error occurred... no line number... no nothing... let a = [1] print(a[1]) Is all you have to do to reproduce the error. The error looks something like that https://pastebin.com/MQV82SaR And gives you no useful…

What if you follow the advice here >Stack dump without symbol names (ensure you have llvm-symbolizer in your PATH or set the environment var `LLVM_SYMBOLIZER_PATH` to point to it): ?

If I follow the advice

https://pastebin.com/8M9Dbrgj

Not sure how that's any better... I still have no idea that the error occurred on line 2

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#98

Post by codr7 »

elforce002 wrote: post #40
timsneath wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course! Tons of examples here: https://github.com/apple/swift-embedded-examples At WWDC24, we shared a session on embedded Swift, which is available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqxbsADqDI4 More documentation on embedded Swift tooling here: https://github.com/swiftlang/swift/blob/main/docs/EmbeddedSw... (Disclosure: I work at Apple.)

Hi Tim. I liked your work with dart/flutter. Are you guys working on overhauling Xcode? The DX is atrocious.

Agreed. It's not like they didn't have enough time to fix it either. And they seem semi-capable of creating usable UI's elsewhere.

The thing is, when it comes to applications, both Apple and Microsoft compete with their own customers; which makes a pretty solid motivation for providing shitty developer experiences.

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#99

Post by talldayo »

uhura wrote: post #36

I believe that this long game of Swift being "good for everything" but "better for Apple platforms" will be detrimental to the language. This does not help the language nor seems to bring more people to the ecosystem. Competitors seems to have a combination of: - Being more open-source - Have more contributors - Have a narrower scope Maybe they should consider open sourcing all the tooling (like Xcode) otherwise the…

Frankly, it makes me feel bad for Chris Lattner. This guy's been worked his ass off to create a genuinely new language with all the bells and whistles he can fit, and his employer is the one that held him back the most. It took years for Foundation framework to get serious multiplatform commitment, and unless something changes drastically I think that's going to be the sour taste that developers have in their mouths.

Apple in general seems to only understand software development through the lens of oppressive control. Maybe that's a security imperative for consumer products, but in Open Source it is an outright suicide pact. You have to treat every major platform as a first-class target, otherwise the major platforms will all switch to something better.

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#100

Post by talldayo »

QuinnyPig wrote: post #52
timsneath wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course! Tons of examples here: https://github.com/apple/swift-embedded-examples At WWDC24, we shared a session on embedded Swift, which is available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqxbsADqDI4 More documentation on embedded Swift tooling here: https://github.com/swiftlang/swift/blob/main/docs/EmbeddedSw... (Disclosure: I work at Apple.)

Encountering an Apple employee in the wild is like spotting a unicorn.

Encountering an Apple employee on HN is like finding a Papa John's employee in the food court.
Post reply on HN