Nix – Death by a Thousand Cuts

I think that's a bit reductive, but I get the intent. A lot of people see systemic problems in their development and turn to tools to reduce the cognitive load, busywork, or just otherwise automate a solution. For example "we always argue over formatting" -> use an automated formatter. That makes total sense as long as managing/interacting with the tool is less work, not just different work.

With Nix I still think it's a net positive, but the "different kind of work" side of the equation is pretty large. That's why we're building Flox [1]. The imperative user interface of a package manager (flox install, flox search, etc) that builds out a declaratively-configured, reproducible, cross-platform developer environment. I really think it nails the user experience by keeping that "different work" side of the equation small, and (I hope) just gets out of your way.

[1]: https://flox.dev

Nix and containerization aren't drop-in replacements for each other.

You can use Nix to build containers. Containers on their own don't guarantee reproducibility, especially if the build process isn't static and pure ( how many times do we `sudo apt update` inside a Dockerfile )?

And not everything is going to be containerizable. That only works for most applications. What if we're trying to manage our cloud servers? That's where Nix really shines.

Do you really think that Nix developers don't know how to containerize applications? You think people are using Nix because they refuse to learn how to containerize, and therefore opt to learn a _much more_ difficult and arcane build process? The logic doesn't track there.

Your veiled implication that Nix and NixOS aren't about "getting things done" is, I think, more than a little unfair. I'm using multiple programming languages at work. Each one of them has its own dependency manager that does basically the same job as the other ones. In Python it's Poetry, in Ruby it's Bundler, in JavaScript it's npm/yarn, in PHP it's Composer, etc. A lot of projects require extra setup steps outside of the dependency manager. It's not a good experience that lets you get up and running quickly. And my situation with scripting languages isn't the worst case: God help you if you have dependencies between projects in AOT compiled languages that use different dependency managers.

Of course, the standard answer is to spin up a ton of Docker containers. Docker works, but it looks to me like a local optimum rather than a truly painless solution. It sucks as a build system, and Dockerfiles not being reproducible is the default outcome that needs significant extra care to avoid (how many times have you seen apt update or some equivalent in one)? Besides, why should I have to worry about a whole another OS inside my main OS, with potentially different tooling and conventions, when what I really want is just specific versions of a couple of tools?

I think we've gotten used to development environments being a shitty experience to the point where it seems part and parcel of programming, but when you take step back, it's apparent that the situation causes a lot of frustration and wastes a lot of time. To me, Nix's combination of package manager and reproducible build system looks like one of the most credible ways out. NixOS' declarative configuration and rollbacks are nice side benefits too, for server admins and newbies respectively. Nix just needs a lot more polish. I'm not about to introduce a tool where the most common workflow is still considered experimental. For now, I'll keep using Docker, but I watch Nix with interest and can't wait until its UX matures.

EDIT: Removed claim that Bazel and Buck's creation was motivated by multi-language support. Looks like the main motivations were speed and reproducibility.

It mostly goes the other way, I think. The community surveys haven't asked about NixOS desktop usage in particular. Still, I'm certain that a large majority of contributors are running NixOS on their desktops/laptops/workstations.

That said there are prolific and longstanding contributors who focus on non-NixOS and even non-Linux platforms, and corporate users are likely to be running Nix on macOS or Ubuntu (under WSL). It's not surprising that some users who don't use NixOS on laptops or desktops have still become Nixpkgs contributors or maintainers, imo.

I ran NixOS while I attended university and don't remember any problems with this. Is it a NetworkManager issue?