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28h Days: year 1 update

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Re: 28h Days: year 1 update

#91
post #2

This flies in the face of circadean rhythm research. I know the human body is extremely adaptable, but imagine making every single day a jet-lagged day. My younger self may have been able to tolerate it well enough, but there's no way I'd come out unscathed now.

You must not be aware of the research on Non-24[1] (or "Non-24-hour sleep–wake disorder") which OP seems to have (though perhaps they also aren't aware this is a thing). Not saying non-24 is good for you, but for people unable to follow a 24-hour schedule, free-running sleep (which is what OP is doing) is vastly better than constantly pushing through sleep deprivation, when one's schedule allows for it. Speaking as s…

I miss being able to do free-running sleep.

I remember so many people in my life being skeptical about my claim that I naturally have longer days than 24h. Then ~6 years ago I actually tested it; my watch recorded my sleep, and it became obvious:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rTh2vkEMPEiJXx5Y7 [time-asleep graphed on a daily 24h chart]

And only then did I learn what a non-24 was.

Re: 28h Days: year 1 update

#92

I’ve been fascinated with alternative sleep schedules since I was very young. My initial interest turned to a fascination when I realized the only positive long-term reports were usually from people trying to sell something: Their book, a sleep plan, or just using their sleep cycle as a social hook to impress others (influencers, basically). All of the forum reports started out optimistic and then ended in disappoint…

Fight the sunlight? What the hell do you even mean?! I don't have a 24-hour sleeping schedule naturally. I can force myself into it, but I'll feel miserable because I have to fight my own body to not "fight the sunlight". Some people start naturally getting drowsy in the evening every day, yes, sure. Good for them. I'm not one of those people.

So I'm very much with the author here and I might actually try 28-hour days because what I have for the last 10 years is a mess.

Re: 28h Days: year 1 update

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds suspiciously like “I tend to stay up later and later every night unless I force myself to go to bed on time” — which I suspect is pretty common, it certainly is for me. I’ll start staying up till 3, 4, 5, or later if I’m not on a schedule. Having kids helps.

Yup, a kid is a driver for regularity in sleep cycles.

This makes me wonder about the point he briefly touches at, but otherwise leaves out: his partner. Are there no children planned at all? Have they already raised kids and are done with this? Is he planning to break up with her?

You can't do this and raise a child¹ without being, well, an asshole. He would force the mother to do all the fixed daily things, and the child to navigate your availability using your private clock.

1: After they've settled into a stable daily sleeping rhythm of course. For a baby this system might even be useful some nights (but not others).

Re: 28h Days: year 1 update

#94
post #11

After reading the article I didn’t pick up what any of the advantages are of 28hr days other than being able to communicate with other regions of the world on certain days. I suppose that could be a very important factor for some people who do work in a geographically dispersed area. A few things I would be concerned with are: 1) your SO is not on the same schedule and really for what isn’t a solid reason. I could se…

Overall more hours awake. 7×8 < 6×9

> 7×8 Not usually, no. Typo?

Re: 28h Days: year 1 update

#95
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making some assumptions here that I don't think hold. OP is likely able to do this because they have a longer circadian cycle (though I think it's still less than 28 hours) A person who might naturally have a 24.4 hour cycle without external stimuli (which is the average sleep researchers found) will likely have problems trying to adjust to a 26 hour cycle or longer, because even if they push themselves to sta…

How do you figure out your cycle time?

> How

You need a significant period of time without any time-bound obligation (or even any obligation at all). Any need for an alarm or anything that you'd possibly materialise in a calendar needs to be removed.

You need a room which is pitch black at night (e.g blocks street lights, no leds), yet still allows a tiny bit of sunlight (rationale: without cues the circadian cycle extends up to 48h, there was an experiment about that)

Then, once you have that, start freewheeling, just when you feel tired go rest and when you wake up get up. It'll be a mess at first, for two reasons.

First you may be unable to properly recognise the "I need to take some rest" signal: we're trained by life to largely ignore it.

Second, you need to pay off any debt, sleep, physical, mind, that would play a role in altering your base cycle. Have fun, work out, meditate, go see a therapist even. In a nutshell, find your balance.

Once you have recovered from everything, once all biasing sources have been removed, then sleep will converge to some rhythm, which carries some error margin, so you can only observe it statistically over time. There's your baseline.

It could take months, which more often than not isn't practical to have, so from the above ideal scenario one could devise a protocol that would try to stick as close as possible to it.

Source: first principles+anecdata, sample size of 1, double-non-blind protocol; a.k.a myself digging out of a hole.

Protocol: 3 week sick leave for burnout x anxiety depression, coincidental breakup (so no SO), went from office to remote working, workout plan, 6 month therapy, statistically reliable sleep/health/performance tracking via watch allowing for outlier identification/retrospective deviation root cause analysis.

Result: 0130-0930~30min sleep, 7h45min~5min sleep duration made of two ~4h-ish blocks, 25h~30min cycle. When bound to 24h rhythm, occasional sleepless night leading to 48h day and three aforementioned blocks of sleep (~11h-ish total).

From the data it became painfully obvious that I experience delayed sleep phase disorder, took me 6 months to figure the baseline out, and 6 more to confirm, which is quite hard when you don't even know that it is a thing.

Re: 28h Days: year 1 update

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making some assumptions here that I don't think hold. OP is likely able to do this because they have a longer circadian cycle (though I think it's still less than 28 hours) A person who might naturally have a 24.4 hour cycle without external stimuli (which is the average sleep researchers found) will likely have problems trying to adjust to a 26 hour cycle or longer, because even if they push themselves to sta…

Data point: I found mine to be between 25 and 26 hours. Probably a contributing factor to difficulty in getting to sleep "at a good hour". OTOH mild sleep deprivation has been shown to counter depression, so there's that.

Likewise but I've found small melatonin doses (plus reducing caffeine to once per day) to really help me conform to a 24 hour day. Worth trying if you haven't.

Re: 28h Days: year 1 update

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data point: I found mine to be between 25 and 26 hours. Probably a contributing factor to difficulty in getting to sleep "at a good hour". OTOH mild sleep deprivation has been shown to counter depression, so there's that.

Likewise but I've found small melatonin doses (plus reducing caffeine to once per day) to really help me conform to a 24 hour day. Worth trying if you haven't.

I tried melatonin. It gave me nightmares. Weird, but it was repeatable. So, my 0,02€.

Re: 28h Days: year 1 update

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise but I've found small melatonin doses (plus reducing caffeine to once per day) to really help me conform to a 24 hour day. Worth trying if you haven't.

I tried melatonin. It gave me nightmares. Weird, but it was repeatable. So, my 0,02€.

This happens if I take too much melatonin. The dosage in US-sold melatonin is unnecessarily high. Finnish tablets are typically 1.9mg, while US ones can have 10mg in just one.

Re: 28h Days: year 1 update

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, a kid is a driver for regularity in sleep cycles.

This makes me wonder about the point he briefly touches at, but otherwise leaves out: his partner. Are there no children planned at all? Have they already raised kids and are done with this? Is he planning to break up with her? You can't do this and raise a child¹ without being, well, an asshole. He would force the mother to do all the fixed daily things, and the child to navigate your availability using your private…

perhaps Junior will follow in Father’s footsteps. :)
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