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US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

reuters.com

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Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#91

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

dylan604 wrote: post #42
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support this. It’s not possible to be “perfect,” but if we do our best to get there, we’ll make really good stuff. It’s unlikely to happen, though, as we have a system that explicitly rewards writing crap, because it makes money. As long as we fail to reward good work, we will continue to get poor work.

> As long as we fail to reward good work, we will continue to get poor work. I think that's a bit off. The problem is that we continue to reward poor work so the poor work continues.

That's correct. I was being generous.

Note that even my fairly mild statement was not received well. People really don't like discussion of improving the Quality of software, here. Too much money to be made in not-so-good stuff.

Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#92

Post by wslh »

talldayo wrote: post #48
wslh wrote: post #39

There are many other companies beyond NSO Group, if I were a journalist I would write a more comprehensive list of them and educate about this whole "industry".

NSO Group is unique in that they are entirely sheltered from (largely due) criticism by their government, creating an unaccountable and injust basis of relations between the United States and Israel that many readers are concerned by. There simply aren't any other comparably corrupt "cybersecurity" outfits in the world. Kinda similar to how the IDF has never been charged with war crimes despite several of their servi…

[flagged]

Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#93

Post by talldayo »

fakedang wrote: post #61
talldayo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Israel's opinion? It shouldn't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_... Israeli forces killed 38x more journalists than Hamas did on October 7th.

[flagged]

> Hamas also has a nasty habit of calling certain veterans "journalists".

Ah, kinda like how Israel has a nasty habit of calling their military reservists "innocent civilians" when they're attacked? Or is it more like when they call the Golan Heights colonists "citizens" of a universally unrecognized occupation?

Lot of complex vocabulary here. I invite you to link as many cases of falsely-identified journalist deaths as you can find though. It sounds like a big issue, judging from your tone.

> When they do die, Al Jazeera makes a hue and cry out of it because it serves their agenda and resonates very well with their audience

It could also be that killing civilians is a bad thing, and when Israel ignores the directly communicated press positions it exposes their indifference to collateral damage.

Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#94

Post by aguaviva »

fastball wrote: post #73
Bilal_io wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. And no sensible adult should refer to the genecide in Gaza as being deep in the algorithm.

Genocide is an attempt to eradicate a group. The only group Israel is trying to eradicate is Hamas. They're not genociding Palestinians, they're genociding Hamas. Are they killing an excessive number of civilians as collateral damage? Certainly seems like it. But collateral damage is not genocide. If they wanted to genocide the Palestinians, they'd be shipping 'em to camps and gassing them, like the Nazis did. Lookin…

[flagged]

Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#95

Post by talldayo »

wslh wrote: post #92
talldayo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NSO Group is unique in that they are entirely sheltered from (largely due) criticism by their government, creating an unaccountable and injust basis of relations between the United States and Israel that many readers are concerned by. There simply aren't any other comparably corrupt "cybersecurity" outfits in the world. Kinda similar to how the IDF has never been charged with war crimes despite several of their servi…

[flagged]

What you're missing is that this isn't a relative position. Nobody in this thread (or much of anywhere on HN) is defending Europe or America's misdoings with the same rhetoric. The reason is that people are willing to accept that their governments make mistakes, and they reflect on these problems and fix them democratically.

Israel, currently, is in a position where a extremely nationalist and conservative ruling party has given all sorts of lawbreakers complete impunity. Violators of internationally recognized borders are ignored because it's a boost to morale. Hackers that sell their services without scruples are given a safe haven in exchange for access to their digital arms. And many people rush to defend their actions (or distract from them) because they tacitly approve these behaviors.

When you refuse to acknowledge or in any way address the countless and even admitted ways in which Israel violates international law, you somewhat tip your hand and reveal that you have no intention of holding them accountable even at their most reprehensible. This thread is about Israeli complacency in breaking the law. You are the one crying whataboutism apropos of... Israel being criticized in a public setting.

Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#96

Post by dang »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #78
alecco wrote: post #27

Aaaaand it's flagged out of the front page. @dang, so early in the day this is obviously some coordinated manipulation. 31. 206 points 9 hours ago US judge finds Israel's NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp (reuters.com) 22. 37 points 8 hours ago My Pal, the Ancient Philosopher (nautil.us) 15. 4 points 4 hours ago Testing for Thermal Issues Becomes More Difficult (semiengineering.com) 18. 11 points…

Dang doesn’t buy that anything ever actually happens here (just like the meme). I’m pretty sure dang is deeply associated with the IC.

Oh you guys.

Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#97

Post by monkeyfun »

bawolff wrote: post #19
dmantis wrote: post #13

There should be no difference with usual botnet owner/ransomware gangs and such companies. Management should go to prison for good 20-30 years for that and being extradited worldwide. Considering that ransomware gangs are probably less harmful to the society than guys who hack journalists and politicians, putting their lifes at literal risks, not just their pockets. There should be no "legal" hacking of someone's dev…

Its not like this is that different than traditional "weapons" (i hate the "cyberweapons" analogy, but if the shoe fits). Sell guns to governments, even unsavoury ones, it is very rare anything will happen to you except in pretty extreme cases. Sell guns to street gangs, well that is a different story. Like i don't think this situation is different because it is "hacking".

And meanwhile, if the government sells guns to cartels... no big deal. Rarely throw a fall guy under the bus. Or often not even that.

Trying to remember the quote I last heard, something to the tune of "we don't want to punish, we want to educate", which was about "educating" LEOs and entire police departments they shouldn't be selling fun switch guns illegally to gangs and private buyers.

(And do I even have to mention "fast and furious?" Hah! Feds get it the easiest.)

Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#98

Post by fakedang »

talldayo wrote: post #89
fakedang wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Flip that statement on it's head. What respectable nation would fire upon a suspect in a press jacket without actually knowing who it is first? Who orders artillery and airstrikes on known press positions? Soviet doctrine? Countries with WWII logistics? Seems clear to me that this is a deliberate campaign of terror constructed by the IDF to deter any form of independent journalism in Gaza. No different than hasbara o…

[flagged]

Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#99

Post by cyanydeez »

dmantis wrote: post #13

There should be no difference with usual botnet owner/ransomware gangs and such companies. Management should go to prison for good 20-30 years for that and being extradited worldwide. Considering that ransomware gangs are probably less harmful to the society than guys who hack journalists and politicians, putting their lifes at literal risks, not just their pockets. There should be no "legal" hacking of someone's dev…

Unfortunately, incorporation is how you whitewash normal criminal culpability to just a cost of doing business fine.

Capitalism is neat that way. Diffusion of responsibility.

Re: US judge finds NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp

#100

Post by dang »

layer8 wrote: post #53
alecco wrote: post #27

Aaaaand it's flagged out of the front page. @dang, so early in the day this is obviously some coordinated manipulation. 31. 206 points 9 hours ago US judge finds Israel's NSO Group liable for hacking journalists via WhatsApp (reuters.com) 22. 37 points 8 hours ago My Pal, the Ancient Philosopher (nautil.us) 15. 4 points 4 hours ago Testing for Thermal Issues Becomes More Difficult (semiengineering.com) 18. 11 points…

“@dang” doesn’t do anything. Email hn@ycombinator.com.

Correct. If someone had emailed hn@ycombinator.com sooner, we would have fixed this sooner.
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