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Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

climate.benjames.io

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Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of bailing out owners of burnt down homes in Paradise, CA worth $0 for $700k is rolled into every San Francisco PG&E bill.

That's just factually incorrect. Paradise was forced to take PGE stock (at some unrealistic valuation) as a repayment. The settlement is years in the rear view mirror now. I actually live in the area and meet people from Paradise. Most people involved got absolutely shafted and the money is mostly going to lawyers and accountants in San Francisco. Surprise. PGE costs have gone up because the state's Public Utilities…

I appreciate your wisdom to use ChatGPT's search to verify your facts about the Paradise settlements. If you're asking me, is it a good idea to administer a settlement between PG&E and the Camp Fire victims? No. We agree there. I don't doubt for a second that ratepayers and victims are getting a bad deal! I don't think we should have ever agreed to the settlement, and Sacramento made a huge mistake.

But: the settlement's law traded on the exact empathy you do right now.

Here's where we disagree: what evidence do you need to see to be convinced that nobody should be living in your community? Harsh words right? It's the exact opposite of the empathy you are trying to get through, that I appreciate.

I think smart people struggle with climate science, viewing it as strictly a set of facts, when in fact it is deeply political: it is telling us where we can and cannot live, which is as powerful as violence-protected borders.

We have pretty unequivocal evidence that tells us on the time scales of realizing real estate returns, some communities will be "worth" "$0."

Do you think we should have insurance of last resort in California? Insurers read the same scientific studies and don't protect people's homes from wildfires. It is basically immaterial in the long term which human activity causes the wildfire - as you say, the settlement is in the rear view mirror - it could have been a gender reveal party that started the flame, and then, what would you do, make that person personally liable for billions of dollars? It would be bailout all the same, poorly administered, because it is simply impossible to not "absolutely shaft" someone who says their home is worth $700k when it is actually worth $0.

It costs $42m to just bail out 20 homes in Palos Verdes, a community with very politically powerful people. It's a slow motion crisis in California.

Do you think we should bail out all the home owners in San Francisco, who bought their homes at $40,000, pay tiny Prop 13 dynastically protected rates and therefore pay little taxes to their own community, and have things nominally worth $1.4m, when an earthquake hits? That's not your community, and suddenly, oh man, that sounds expensive, man, you don't have bottomless empathy for that community. Should nobody be living in San Francisco because of the earthquake risk? Tough question.

So what if I spin some narrative that someone somewhere is responsible or liable? It is impossible for any entity to pay off all those people, including the government - it couldn't even compensate the 10x fewer victims of Camp Fire.

The solution to me is simple: don't buy a house, and if you do, don't make it your only means of savings. I can escape a wildfire, and I think I can escape an earthquake, but my life will not be ruined, as long as I do not own an overpriced home. You are talking about leaders in bed with PG&E or whatever, conspiracies, and right in front of you, you are surrounded, in your community, by people who believe their real estate gives market returns risk free.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#92
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Annually, that sounds about right.

Oh, I thought this was monthly. The article doesn't specify, and all other bills I've seen are monthly. Do Brits pay annually?

You don't pay annually, but because of the substantial variation in energy usage throughout the year, you'll generally price-compare on an annual basis, and usually the monthly payment is a kind of pro-rata value where you over-pay in summer and under-pay in winter.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples? Other than the utter twatscape that was Brexit, it’s a pretty competitive country in most ways

Start by looking at the crazy over-regulation that happens to farmers in the UK.

I thought they were still pretty well in sync with the old EU laws (CAP) — what are some specific examples you object to?

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#94
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Annually, that sounds about right.

Oh, I thought this was monthly. The article doesn't specify, and all other bills I've seen are monthly. Do Brits pay annually?

Electricity consumption will vary during the year so it seems fair to give the yearly total to have the actual cost; and you can divide by twelve if your prefer a monthly average.

Meanwhile, if they only gave a monthly figure, one could wonder if it's an average or if it's taken in January or July.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#95
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Annually, that sounds about right.

Oh, I thought this was monthly. The article doesn't specify, and all other bills I've seen are monthly. Do Brits pay annually?

Normally pay monthly by Direct Debit, but because usage varies so much between summer and winter we assess and estimate usage annually.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#96
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is rich, given you seem to be American.

you have to admit english people have a weird tick when it comes to poverty. you worship poor people. and yes, you guys willingly live like you are poor when you guys are definitely not poor

I'm not english at all. Just pointing out that no American should ever be criticizing anyone for how their government and society is setup. The only reasons Americans need to be "rich" is because health insurance is a scam, a car accident can bankrupt you, the tax code is entirely for the wealthy, and social services are poor at best. It's a fake wealth, one where you can have 3M in investments and not be able to retire because the system is set up so poorly.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#97
post #29

Commercial energy broker here - the only 2 'real' costs in your price are the wholesale and supplier costs. Choose suppliers that offer a fully-fixed electricity contract, so that made up variable costs such as distribution, network, etc are all factored into the unit rate that the supplier charges you for your contract. Avoid smart meters at all costs. Renewable / green contracts are always a lot more expensive than…

What's the reason to avoid smart meters?

The security is broken and it broadcasts your information in the clear. I set up a RTLSDR plugged into my laptop in my kitchen and was able to read the energy utilization of my entire neighborhood after about 10min of work.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#98
post #8

Yeah the "network costs" bit should probably have a caveat about how they are a natural monopoly and are absolutely rinsing the UK for profits. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/20/unite-union... "Supplier costs and margins" probably should take a fair bit of the blame too. When Thatcher privatised the UK energy industry to make it "competitive", they basically created an entire complex web of middlemen.…

I remember reading in the UK papers about one of the first water companies to privatize. The very first act of the board was to vote themselves a BIG pay raise.

It's only relatively recently that this is being dealt with:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/dec/19/thames-wate...

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#99

The graph shows the price for 3100 kWh. I'm not sure if that is a very low annual amount or a very very high monthly amount. The average US household uses 10,000 kWh annually ~833 kWh per month. So I'm guessing most Americans reading the article and looking at the interactive graph are thinking either: this is very cheap or very expensive, depending on whether they are assuming it's monthly or annual. In the US the a…

We're at ~3.6 MWh in a ground floor apartment with 2 adults, with water heating (e.g. showering) electric but building heating on gas (though we use a space heater a lot as well, probably to the tune of 0.2 MWh/year)

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#100

Some of these are "costs" which reduce costs elsewhere. Smart meters for example, though rollout has hit snags and they've become targets for weird conspiracy theories, they are basically designed to give better real time info on electricity demand which helps with managing the grid. This in theory should save money elsewhere. Similarly for CfD. Yes the government may on net be paying a subsidy to get wind power buil…

Maybe, but the long term planning has been atrocious, millions of smart meters already need replacing because of the 3g switch off. It's massively wasteful if they are all going to need replacing again in 10 years when 4g is switched off. Not to mention the concerns about electricity companies remotely forcing meters into prepayment mode or switching off people's electricity supply.

Something (2G?) is generally staying available so "smart" devices can work for decades.
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