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AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

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Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#91

I don't understand AT&Ts strategy here. I assume the vast majority of AT&Ts network is overhead, and it is not expensive in the scheme of things to run PON fibre on the poles. They are effectively giving away ~50% of their footprint to competitors, forever to avoid a one time capex cost. Obviously there is going to be a portion of their network which is completely uneconomic to serve (requiring huge fibre runs for a…

It’s not one time capex. The poles must be rented to run fiber across them.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#92

My top desire is that the FCC go back and do what Congress actually asked for in the Telecommunications Act of 1996, to make fiber and hybrid loops part of the require unbundled network elements offerings. This infrastructure is so heavily subsidized. The FCC in 2002/2003, with some prompting from the courts, allowed fiber to be effectively an monopoly offering. Contrary to the law that Congress had passed! > Elimina…

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't oppose anything at this point that hurt AT&T, purely out of spite, since I'm from California, where their allergy to capex (besides Wireless) has allowed our cable companies (mainly Comcast, Spectrum, and Cox) to simply set prices, bandwidth caps, and service levels for Internet at whatever they feel like. But anyway, I think if you wanted to force AT&T to compete by offering FTTP more widely, mandating that they have to sell access wholesale to others, like they do with DSL, would not be the way to do it. They've deployed basically no fiber in the past decade, and they'd deploy zero if they thought it likely their competitors would exploit the infra they built instead of them gaining retail customers.

Even if they were taken over tomorrow by leadership that weren't crooks, they're already in a terrible position to compete as it is -- in the 20 years since they did anything, Comcast and the others have gone from the ~10Mbps connections they once offered, to 1 and even 2Gbps in many places, so I assume in nearly all the areas AT&T doesn't serve with fiber, the incumbent cable co has about 95% market share already. Tough to break into that. even though customers hate the cable companies, they know AT&T is just as slimy -- and nobody wants to set aside a day to wait for an internet installer.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#93
post #78
post #67

What this tells me is that industries with limited growth potential and who are focused on incremental rather than transformative technology do not respond to government carrots, and to the extent that they do anything, it is to arrange scenarios where they privatize the carrots and socialize the costs. There is no return on investment for investments in rural fiber. Infrastructure needs a high density of users to be…

Problem is that we live in an environment where a company like AT&T can lobby for basically anything they want, and have basically no accountability when they don't meet their obligations. You even have people telling stories where they could get fiber service, but the provider just doesn't want to.

What's most tragic is how cheap lobbying is, or more accurately, how great the ROI is. A company like AT&T, or a defense contractor, or an oil company, spends low millions on lobbying, not billions, and as a result reaps enormous windfalls in the tens of billions. I don't have any idea how to fix "money in politics" because first amendment is so tied up in it once you try to do anything, and they've mastered indirection so well that any restrictions are easily worked around by astroturf PACs.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#94
post #39

And they got their incoming president who will run the country like a business and let them carry on doing nothing.

To be completely fair, Biden has done f*k all to hold AT&T to account in the past four years. I doubt a second term of Democrats would be different. Both parties are failures in most areas, and telecom regulation is something neither party cares one whit about.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#95
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an issue of what companies to trust. The issue is trusting them at all. Ideally this sort of thing should be a public work. Operators can be private but shared infrastructure should be publicly owned seeing as we're paying for it. But if markets have to be involved...If we're willing to pay $X per customer we should give the tax subsidy to them. The market can sort out who is actually willing to get the work…

Yes, I have no idea how, in 2024 , internet service is not considered a basic utility like power and water, and regulated as such. My parents paid ~ $65 / mo for 6mb dsl for ages. They had constant outages, and ATT always stonewalled the repairs. Talking to the repair guy, he admitted that ATT basically hated supporting that DSL, and wished all their rural customers would go elsewhere. He even told them that if they…

This rings verrrry true.

I recall in 2005 in a major west coast city, having 6Mbps DSL service but it was very prone to disruption. The tech they would send out would be just trying different pairs from a big fat cable to see if he could find one that was not too deteriorated from age. Even two decades ago AT&T's infrastructure was falling apart, and again, this was in a major city everyone in the world has heard of. Even then, they didn't care enough to even fix their 50-year old copper (which is now 70 years old) let alone lay fiber. Meanwhile also in 2005 on the other side of the continent, FiOS was launched.

Re: AT&T won't upgrade millions of DSL users to fiber despite billions in subsidies

#96

Is AT&T still around? Bell Labs is a long-faded memory at this point.

Wasn't Bell Labs a result of ATT's natural, sanctioned monopoly?

Sure, but back in those days (the 50s, 60s, 70s) two things were true about the company that bore the AT&T name: 1. They invested in research that benefited the whole industry with Bell Labs, and 2. they built out and maintained the infrastructure well.

Today they're just operating with the most cynical approach, where they extract the maximum amount of value out of a network built by our grandfathers' generation, only doing capex in the most targeted areas where the ROI will be instantaneous. (new subdivisions, and specifically ones where they can get the HOA to bake in their services to the HOA fee). I used to live in a large urban tower and AT&T did finally come in with fiber, in 2017, on that condition. They'll be cash flow positive from Day 1 because 100% of the homes in that tower are customers, and they literally can't cancel their service (or more specifically their payment).

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