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Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

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Re: Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

#91

Post by dagmx »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #60
dagmx wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ll care though when they have to pay for it, or when they’re in an area with poor reception.

They pay to run it locally as well (more expensive hardware) And sure, poor reception will be an issue, but most people would still absolutely take a helpful remote assistant over a dumb local assistant. And you don't exactly see people complaining that they can't run Google/YouTube/etc locally.

Your first sentence has the fallacy that you’re attributing the cost of the device to a single feature against the cost of that single feature.

Most people are unlikely to buy the device for the AI features alone. It’s a value add to the device they’d buy anyway.

So you need the paid for option to be significantly better than the free one that comes with the device.

Your second sentence assumes the local one is dumb. What happens when local ones get better? Again how much better is the cloud one to compete on cost?

To your last sentence, it assumes data fetching from the cloud. Which is valid but a lot of data is local too. Are people really going to pay for what Google search is giving them for free?

Re: Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

#92

Post by xyst »

Side note on Gemini: I pay for Google Workspace simply to enable e-mail capability for a custom domain.

I never used the web interface to access email until recently. To my surprise, all of the AI shit is enabled by default. So it’s very likely Gemini has been training on private data without my explicit consent.

Of course G words it as “personalizing” the experience for me but it’s such a load of shit. I’m tired of these companies stealing our data and never getting rightly compensated.

Re: Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

#93

Post by ramoz »

airstrike wrote: post #19

OT: I’m not entirely sure why, but "agentic" sets my teeth on edge. I don't mind the concept, but the word itself has that hollow, buzzwordy flavor I associate with overblown LinkedIn jargon, particularly as it is not actually in the dictionary...unlike perfectly serviceable entries such as "versatile", "multifaceted" or "autonomous"

Need a general term for autonomous intelligent decision making.

Re: Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

#94

Post by dagmx »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #69
dagmx wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ll care though when they have to pay for it, or when they’re in an area with poor reception.

You can run model >100x faster in cloud compared to on device with DDR RAM. This would make up for the reception.

And you can’t run the cloud model at all if you can’t talk to the cloud.

Re: Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

#95

Post by dandiep »

Gemini multimodal live docs here: https://cloud.google.com/vertex-ai/generative-ai/docs/model-...

A little thin...

Also no pricing is live yet. OpenAI's audio inputs/outputs are too expensive to really put in production, so hopefully Gemini will be cheaper. (Not to mention, OAI's doesn't follow instructions very well.)

Re: Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

#96

Post by AJRF »

I think they are really overloading that word "Agent". I know there isn't a standard definition - but I think Google are stretching the meaning of that way thinner than most C Suite level execs talk about agents at.

I think DeepMind could make progress if they focused on the agent definition of multi-step reasoning + action through a web browser, and deliver a ton of value, outside of lumping in the seldom used "Look at the world through a camera" or "Multi modal Robots" thing.

If Google cracked robots, past plays show that the market for those aren't big enough to interest Google. Like VR, you just can't get a billion people to be interested in robots - so even if they make progress, it won't survive under Google.

The "Look at the world through a camera" thing is a footnote in an Android release.

Agentic computer use _is_ a product a billion people would use, and it's adjacent to the business interests of Google Search.

Re: Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

#97

Post by airstrike »

ramoz wrote: post #93
airstrike wrote: post #19

OT: I’m not entirely sure why, but "agentic" sets my teeth on edge. I don't mind the concept, but the word itself has that hollow, buzzwordy flavor I associate with overblown LinkedIn jargon, particularly as it is not actually in the dictionary...unlike perfectly serviceable entries such as "versatile", "multifaceted" or "autonomous"

Need a general term for autonomous intelligent decision making.

Isn't that just "intelligent"?

Re: Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

#99

Post by huijzer »

srameshc wrote: post #82
losvedir wrote: post #74

This naming is confusing... Anyway, I'm glad that this Google release is actually available right away! I pay for Gemini Advanced and I see "Gemini Flash 2.0" as an option in the model selector. I've been going through Advent of Code this year, and testing each problem with each model (GPT-4o, o1, o1 Pro, Claude Sonnet, Opus, Gemini Pro 1.5). Gemini has done decent, but is probably the weakest of the bunch. It failed…

I use a Claude and Gemini a lot for coding and I realized there is no good or best model. Every model has it's upside and downside. I was trying to get authentication working according to the newer guidelines of Manifest V3 for browser extensions and every model is terrible. It is one use case where there is not much information or right documentation so every model makesup stuff. But this is my experience and I don'…

Relatedly, I start to think more and more the AI is great for mediocre stuff. If you just need to do the 1000th website, it can do that. Do you want to build a new framework? Then there will probably be less many useful suggestions. (Still not useless though. I do like it a lot for refactoring while building xrcf.)

EDIT: One reason that lead me to think it's better for mediocre stuff was seeing the Sora model generate videos. Yes it can create semi-novel stuff through combinations of existing stuff, but it can't stick to a coherent "vision" throughout the video. It's not like a movie by a great director like Tarantino where every detail is right and all details point to the same vision. Instead, Sora is just flailing around. I see the same in software. Sometimes the suggestions go towards one style and the next moment into another. I guess AI currently is just way lower in their context length. Tarantino has been refining his style for 30 years now. And always he has been tuning his model towards his vision. AI in comparison seems to always just take everything and turn it into one mediocre blob. It's not useless but currently good to keep in mind I think. That you can only use it to generate mediocre stuff.

Re: Gemini 2.0: our new AI model for the agentic era

#100

Post by crowcroft »

panabee wrote: post #86
crowcroft wrote: post #15

Big companies can be slow to pivot, and Google has been famously bad at getting people aligned and driving in one direction. But, once they do get moving in the right direction the can achieve things that smaller companies can't. Google has an insane amount of talent in this space, and seems to be getting the right results from that now. Remains to be seen how well they will be able to productize and market, but hard…

With many research areas converging to comparable levels, the most critical piece is arguably vertical integration and forgoing the Nvidia tax. They haven't wielded this advantage as powerfully as possible, but changes here could signal how committed they are to slaying the search cash cow. Nadella deservedly earned acclaim for transitioning Microsoft from the Windows era to cloud and mobile. It will be far more impr…

They need an iPod to iPhone like transition. If they can pull it off it will be incredible for the business.
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