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Performance improvement plans are on the rise

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Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#91

Post by makk »

throwawygg wrote: post #89

Throwaway manager here. I tried to keep a personality hire out of a PIP. It was a huge mistake. Turns out when all other options are exhausted, a PIP can be a form of respect. In the hands of the right manager, an underperformer gets one last clear chance to show they can do the job. If they succeed, some the ugly baggage gets put behind them. And if they can't succeed, then the PIP sends a message that they are unsu…

An even better token of respect is to just can the person and give them a respectable severance package, so they have months (plural) to find their next thing.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#92

Post by sunshowers »

stavros wrote: post #90
sunshowers wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have things going on in their lives! What if it's not the employee's performance but the manager's that's concerning — it's the manager who should get the PIP? What if it's the CEO's fault for creating an environment where many employees are demotivated — what if the CEO should be the one getting the PIP? Tech still, to this day, has a problem retaining women and URMs. Conceptions of individual performance are…

I feel like this conversation is "bad PIPs are bad!" "but good PIPs are good" "no, bad!". Sometimes, you can tell someone "listen, nothing else worked, and we tried for a while, so this is the last resort". Do you think it's better to fire people outright than to give them one last chance?

I think most of the time, so-called underperformance is caused by the environment, not the individual. If a company cares about bringing the best out of individuals it would fix the environment.

(There are certainly some individuals that end up being a negative to the team, disrupting more than contributing, and a small minority of PIPs are justified in that sense. But most PIPs I've seen are handed out to hardworking individuals who are very clearly doing their best and are enhancing the team, just because they maybe aren't as good as playing politics, or are game theoretic doves in an environment full of hawks.)

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#93

Post by devmor »

I have received one PIP in my entire career - it was at an employer which was recently purchased by another company, shortly after the majority of my team was replaced with offshore contractors.

I was not at all surprised at receiving it, despite my performance being roughly on par with my entire tenure in that position up to that point. If anything, I was happy to receive it as it prompted me to start interviewing elsewhere earlier.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#94

Post by stavros »

sunshowers wrote: post #92
stavros wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this conversation is "bad PIPs are bad!" "but good PIPs are good" "no, bad!". Sometimes, you can tell someone "listen, nothing else worked, and we tried for a while, so this is the last resort". Do you think it's better to fire people outright than to give them one last chance?

I think most of the time, so-called underperformance is caused by the environment, not the individual. If a company cares about bringing the best out of individuals it would fix the environment. (There are certainly some individuals that end up being a negative to the team, disrupting more than contributing, and a small minority of PIPs are justified in that sense. But most PIPs I've seen are handed out to hardworkin…

What if everyone else is performing well in that environment?

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#95

Post by devmor »

deadbabe wrote: post #11

I don’t understand why you would PIP a person and keep them waffling around for months on end collecting paychecks when you can just severance them out and pay less in time and money?

I believe that often times the PIP is an attempt to get more value out of an employee that you would otherwise replace with offshore resources.

i.e. "Maybe if we spook them, we can get the work of two people out of them for a while."

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#96

Post by the_snooze »

mrandish wrote: post #52
delecti wrote: post #29

I got put on a PIP at Amazon, and even at the time I thought it was a reasonable criticism. I then worked hard, graduated out of the PIP, and stayed there a few more years. (I also opted-in to a second PIP (with my manager's knowledge and assistance) when I was leaving so I could get severance, but I don't really count that) One of my current mentees got put on a PIP a couple years ago, and she likewise has significa…

> So while PIPs might be started with the expectation that most employees won't improve, I think they're also started with the hope that they will. I've seen it both ways and I think it comes down to the quality of the company and the manager - which, of course, varies widely. A good manager doesn't need PIPs because they're always communicating clearly and consistently to their reports about how they're doing. Ultim…

>A good manager doesn't need PIPs because they're always communicating clearly and consistently to their reports about how they're doing.

More generally, a good manager is someone who shields their people from surprises. A PIP should never come as a surprise to someone. Unfortunately, there are bad managers out there who fail at that. It's not the manager's fault if someone gets put on a PIP, but it's absolutely 100% their failing if it comes out of the blue.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#97

Post by therealdrag0 »

MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #14

> “A lot of the time, they’re done,” Gadea said of underperformers. “They’re burned out, they need a break. And now you’re asking them to work harder.” I've seen that once, most recently. Before that, it was somebody who was trying to get let go on performance grounds, thinking that it would lead to severance (didn't work out). Before that, it was somebody who got put on PIP, but I'm not sure why, and they were perso…

Why just fire them? As you showed they can “just quit” if they don’t want to play ball, and some people want to have the opportunity to play ball.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#98

Post by sunshowers »

stavros wrote: post #94
sunshowers wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of the time, so-called underperformance is caused by the environment, not the individual. If a company cares about bringing the best out of individuals it would fix the environment. (There are certainly some individuals that end up being a negative to the team, disrupting more than contributing, and a small minority of PIPs are justified in that sense. But most PIPs I've seen are handed out to hardworkin…

What if everyone else is performing well in that environment?

I'd ask, is everyone else really performing well? What if everyone's focusing on short term self-promotion while incurring far too much technical debt? The one person focusing on rigor then gets PIPed, even though losing them would make the team far worse. (Actual case I've seen.)

edit: while I was not put on a PIP, at FB I got a "meets most" rating in the cycle where I first built cargo-nextest. In the end nextest had a far greater impact on the world than anything else management was doing, and the same people who gave me that rating now have it as a critical dependency. It's still wild to me how little focus there was on seriously thinking about long-term project health.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#99

Post by ambicapter »

makk wrote: post #91
throwawygg wrote: post #89

Throwaway manager here. I tried to keep a personality hire out of a PIP. It was a huge mistake. Turns out when all other options are exhausted, a PIP can be a form of respect. In the hands of the right manager, an underperformer gets one last clear chance to show they can do the job. If they succeed, some the ugly baggage gets put behind them. And if they can't succeed, then the PIP sends a message that they are unsu…

An even better token of respect is to just can the person and give them a respectable severance package, so they have months (plural) to find their next thing.

Don't see how that's strictly better since the person loses out on potential feedback from the PIP vs straight firing.

PIP also doesn't prevent someone from getting severance, firing is firing.

Re: Performance improvement plans are on the rise

#100

Post by _DeadFred_ »

jghn wrote: post #45
deskr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth can you be a good manager and not realize that saying "your performance is shit, we're going to fire you unless you take this course and we deem you've passed" is totally and utterly soul destroying to a person?

As someone who has been in that situation, it's better than "your performance is shit, you're fired". In my case a large part of the problem was that I was not picking up on what should have been obvious cues. This provided a needed wake up call, and prompted me to improve.

So poor management. A manager's job is to provide their reports the tools they need to do their job, and key to that is not 'obvious cues' but explicitly stated expectations. Basically the manager didn't manage and substituted a PIP for what they should have been doing all along.
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