Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#91

Post by noduerme » Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 3:03 PM UTC

handfuloflight wrote: post #79

noduerme wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> you must expect most people to accomplish very little. Well, yeah—we would expect most Muslims to accomplish little in the space of Islamic jurisprudence as its a whole discipline unto itself.

Yet that jurisprudence pertains to all aspects of life. It strikes me as odd for a system which puts itself forth as a total solution to all issues, and which demands so much in the way of obedience and submission, to expect so little in the way of questioning and intellectual exercise from the people who follow its tenets. Then again, I'm sure that's why my comment was flagged.

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#92

Post by handfuloflight » Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 5:18 AM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #91

handfuloflight wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you must expect most people to accomplish very little. Well, yeah—we would expect most Muslims to accomplish little in the space of Islamic jurisprudence as its a whole discipline unto itself.

Yet that jurisprudence pertains to all aspects of life. It strikes me as odd for a system which puts itself forth as a total solution to all issues, and which demands so much in the way of obedience and submission, to expect so little in the way of questioning and intellectual exercise from the people who follow its tenets. Then again, I'm sure that's why my comment was flagged.

> Yet that jurisprudence pertains to all aspects of life.

As does secular law. Is it feasible for everyone to become a lawyer? Because that's the analogue.

> to expect so little in the way of questioning and intellectual exercise from the people who follow its tenets.

But that's just not true. You would only assume that if you were not acquainted with the Islamic intellectual tradition. Rather most people simply do not put in the effort that's necessary to develop the rigor and depth required to join the discussion. That's more of a comment on average human nature.

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#93

Post by MrMcCall » Sat, Nov 30, 2024, 11:45 AM UTC

handfuloflight wrote: post #86

MrMcCall wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compassion has always been the minority position for all human beings, regardless of religiosity. That's why the world is the way it is. For most people, selfishness for their group is the reason they claim any religious affiliation whatsoever. The Quran says, "Do not break into sects." And yet, Sunnis and Shiites are at each other's throats. The sects that the Quran are referring to, however, are any sects amongh hu…

I did not say the hadith have the same purity as the Quran, that being an argument with nebulous and undefined terms, we don't know what "purity" means here. Rather I said it has similar methods of transmission, that being oral transmission. The same groups of people who transmitted ahadith also transmitted the Quran. Doubting their transmission in one instance puts doubt on the other. Yes hadith have been forged but…

Transmitting the written-in-arabic Quran is different than copying hadith. It carries a different level of purity. That doesn't mean that all hadith are wrong, but the key is that if there is a discrepency between hadith and Quran, then the Quran is the authoratative source.

And no where in the Quran does it say to read hadith. That would be absurd, because the Quran contains everything.

If you want to get to the heart of the matter, go to the source at mihr dot com.

Our masjid/camii never even mentioned the words Sunni or Shiite. I still don't know which I and my family are, though it's been over 20 years since my repentence.

Do you know what Hidayat is? It is in the first ayat of Baqarah, and is the meaning of the first Beatitude, and is what the Quran is, and is the single most important concept in life and, therefore, the Quran.

And, yes, Sufism is the truest form of Islam, for we understand that love is the sole purpose of religion, even when and especially when dealing with evil-minded folks. Just remember that calling oneself something is a lot different than what one actually is. There are a lot of people calling themselves a "man of God" who are far away from Its Will to Love.

The Greatest Command (the Gospels being from God, too) is to "Love God with all your being, and then to love your neighbor as yourself." No form of religion that disrespects that command is living in the light of God's Truth. That's why the Sunnis and Shiites are warring while the Quran states explicitly that breaking into sects is prohibited. This is because hypocrisy and ignorance are but two of the 19 vices of the human heart that we must overcome to become fully submitted to the Divine Will.

God's judgement always looks into our heart, because that's where the truth is found. You should be more humble and respectful and open to learning new truths, because no one ever traverses the fullness of what can be known in one lifetime.

Learn about Hidayat, the nefs and the Ruh, and how love is all that really matters, in all our doings. I have given you the link to the truth of love and the Quran and how to navigate this life. Peace be with you. I love you. I am at your service.

Re: Prayer, Placement, and Absolution: Peter Hristoff on Islamic Prayer Rugs (2015)

#94

Post by handfuloflight » Sat, Nov 30, 2024, 7:22 PM UTC

MrMcCall wrote: post #93

handfuloflight wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not say the hadith have the same purity as the Quran, that being an argument with nebulous and undefined terms, we don't know what "purity" means here. Rather I said it has similar methods of transmission, that being oral transmission. The same groups of people who transmitted ahadith also transmitted the Quran. Doubting their transmission in one instance puts doubt on the other. Yes hadith have been forged but…

Transmitting the written-in-arabic Quran is different than copying hadith. It carries a different level of purity. That doesn't mean that all hadith are wrong, but the key is that if there is a discrepency between hadith and Quran, then the Quran is the authoratative source. And no where in the Quran does it say to read hadith. That would be absurd, because the Quran contains everything. If you want to get to the hea…

> And no where in the Quran does it say to read hadith. That would be absurd, because the Quran contains everything.

Quran 24:54 Say, “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger. But if you turn away, then he is only responsible for his duty1 and you are responsible for yours.2 And if you obey him, you will be ˹rightly˺ guided. The Messenger’s duty is only to deliver ˹the message˺ clearly.”

How do you plan on obeying the Messenger, upon him be peace, if you devalue the importance of his words to your spirituality?

Quran 2:151 Since We have sent you a messenger from among yourselves—reciting to you Our revelations, purifying you, teaching you the Book and wisdom, and teaching you what you never knew.

The Kitab and Hikma are two distinct concepts in this verse. If they were one and the same, it would be redundant for God to mention them that way. Muslims since the beginning have understood Hikma to be the Messenger's application of the Kitab, termed his Sunnah. How do you plan on knowing his application of the Book if you devalue the importance of his Sunnah, which you cannot know without ahadith?