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Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#91

Post by jnurmine »

petesergeant wrote: post #9

Exceptionally well-armed NATO + JEF members, and Finland well within distance to use conventional artillery to turn St Petersburg to rubble. This is a public-awareness and support-building exercise rather than a real concern. This is like the RAF frequently issuing press-releases about intercepting Russian jets.

Well, yes, but it is not some PR-influenced look good and like us on Facebook -thing for any of the Nordic nations.

It's about being prepared for all kinds of eventualities, whatever they might be.

For example, last year and early this year heavy winds fell trees on electric lines both in Finland and Sweden, cutting off electricity locally for many days. There was a pandemic not too long ago. Waterworks problems have happened in the past in Finland and also happened this year in Sweden. DDoSing happens here and there, it can impact banks and such.

In addition, grayzone/hybrid operations i.e. all kinds of stupid bullying are constantly conducted: for example, earlier today a submarine cable between Germany and Finland (C-Lion1) was cut, and later today another submarine cable between Lithuania and Sweden was cut as well. Such cables don't just snap by themselves.

Like the Finnish page says: "Prepared people cope better".

https://www.suomi.fi/guides/preparedness

https://www.msb.se/en/advice-for-individuals/the-brochure-in...

Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#92

Post by joe_the_user »

sdwr wrote: post #21

That's what a functional government looks like. High-information, low-controversy, consolidating citizens around a shared truth.

A pamphlet talking about "in case of war..." seems like it is making war itself more likely. "Shared truth" seems like it's reaching also.

Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#93

Post by kjrfghslkdjfl »

rootusrootus wrote: post #32
sdwr wrote: post #21

That's what a functional government looks like. High-information, low-controversy, consolidating citizens around a shared truth.

Sure, but which is the cause, and which the effect? Edit: Huh, a totally legitimate question that points directly at the underlying cause, and downvoted to the limit. Does it hurt that much to admit that people are getting exactly the government they want?

[dead]

Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#94

Post by kjrfghslkdjfl »

joe_the_user wrote: post #92
sdwr wrote: post #21

That's what a functional government looks like. High-information, low-controversy, consolidating citizens around a shared truth.

A pamphlet talking about "in case of war..." seems like it is making war itself more likely. "Shared truth" seems like it's reaching also.

[dead]

Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#95

Post by stereolambda »

nostrademons wrote: post #64
FredPret wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muammar Gaddafi was a terrible person. But when he died, things in his country got even worse.

[flagged]

One loose analogy could be the death of Stalin. His main men got on fighting for a few years, with a few important ones like Molotov and Beria (initially considered something of a favorite) ending up sidelined or dead. The Cold War ultimately continued, though in a less total manner.

But Stalin's Soviets were comparable to N. Korea, than, say, modern Russia, in terms of regime and its complete grip on everything. So I'd say the result would be more chaotic, might be actually comparable to Libya.

Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#96

Post by rightbyte »

piva00 wrote: post #90
hagbard_c wrote: post #89

Nothing new here, the Swedish government has been publishing this guide since the second world war [1] and updates it regularly. It is not directly related to an increase in international tensions and would have been published even if Putin and his cronies were out on the pony farm. The last update was published in 2017/2018 by the previous labour-led government, now that Sweden is part of NATO it needed an update to…

I still have mine from 2017 in a kitchen drawer, as an immigrant it was quite informative, it's how I've learned that Sweden will never surrender and any messaging about it is enemy agitation to be ignored.

> that Sweden will never surrender and any messaging about it is enemy agitation to be ignored.

Oh ye, the outlawing of losing wars. Not very convincing for adults but I guess teenagers think it sounds cool.

Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#97

Post by bilbo0s »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #84
bilbo0s wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite what Hollywood would have you believe, there would be nations that survive a NATO/Russia war. Namely, any nation in the Southern Hemisphere not called Australia or New Zealand. Mother Nature's winds and Father Physic's half lives combine to give unaligned southern hemisphere nations the break of a lifetime. (Or of a species' lifetime I guess?) All that said, you are absolutely right about "spoils". No one is…

why would Australia get hit? no where near Russia, not in NATO, no nukes, and too small of a military to mount a serious offensive for that matter they're not going to be able to supply much relief effort, either. hopefully they'll pick a side - India or China - and ride out the eventual hegemonic war between those 2.

I'm assuming our Navy would harbor there when other ports were gone.

Maybe the Australians wouldn't allow that?

I guess I always assumed they would. Kind of like North Korea with Russian warships. I don't think we could take the chance that the Russian naval assets harbored in N Korea were harmless. Likewise, I'm assuming Russia wouldn't be able to make the assumption that American warships harbored in Australia were harmless.

I don't know? Maybe everyone's naval ships just surrender or something? I doubt it though. Your nation being destroyed is, in my mind, more reason to fight in those circumstances, not less.

Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#98

Post by xg15 »

ipnon wrote: post #86
xg15 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing about one-in-a-million events is that they are eventually going to happen once the other 999,999 occur. Nitpick: I get your point, but phrasing it like this is basically the gambler's fallacy. That's not how probability works. You could ask though if, given the changed environment, the one-in-a-million event still has the odds of one-in-a-million. Or if one-in-a-million is really such a rare thing if you…

The movie asks what is the point of JSDF if Japan isn’t under any threat … then somebody in an F-16 fires a TV guided missile into the Yokohama Bay Bridge. It’s a good movie, you should watch it.

Sounds good indeed!

Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#99

Post by 4bpp »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #84
bilbo0s wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite what Hollywood would have you believe, there would be nations that survive a NATO/Russia war. Namely, any nation in the Southern Hemisphere not called Australia or New Zealand. Mother Nature's winds and Father Physic's half lives combine to give unaligned southern hemisphere nations the break of a lifetime. (Or of a species' lifetime I guess?) All that said, you are absolutely right about "spoils". No one is…

why would Australia get hit? no where near Russia, not in NATO, no nukes, and too small of a military to mount a serious offensive for that matter they're not going to be able to supply much relief effort, either. hopefully they'll pick a side - India or China - and ride out the eventual hegemonic war between those 2.

Australia did contribute troops to most US-led military expeditions of the past century. Is it that unlikely that in the event of complete nuclear devastation of the Northern Hemisphere, they would be happy to tip the scales in favour of their allies among the survivors by dispatching a few tens of thousands of troops to mop up what is left of the Russian side, which would only be up against a few disorganised pockets of resistance with no supply chain to speak of?

Also, there is a chance that in the event of a full-blown nuclear exchange Russian leadership would see the showdown as fundamentally civilisational, and seek to take Australia down simply because it is unambiguously an outpost of Anglo-American culture.

Re: Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

#100

Post by hagbard_c »

rightbyte wrote: post #96
piva00 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still have mine from 2017 in a kitchen drawer, as an immigrant it was quite informative, it's how I've learned that Sweden will never surrender and any messaging about it is enemy agitation to be ignored.

> that Sweden will never surrender and any messaging about it is enemy agitation to be ignored. Oh ye, the outlawing of losing wars. Not very convincing for adults but I guess teenagers think it sounds cool.

The "Sweden will never surrender" part refers to the brochure warning against enemy propaganda which suggests that Swedish forces have surrendered and people should leave enemy forces unharmed. It is mentioned on page 5 of the English-language brochure:

https://rib.msb.se/filer/pdf/30874.pdf

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