Live data from Hacker News

Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

flightglobal.com

91–100 of 311 posts

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#91
post #39

I've posted this here before, but they really need globally unique codes for all the airports, waypoints, etc, it's crazy there are collisions. People always balk at this for some reason but look at the edge cases that can occur, it's crazy CRAZY

That’s not CRAZY at all. CRAZY is at 14° 4' 50.87" N. 145° 38' 16.22" E

https://opennav.com/waypoint/US/CRAZY

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#93

I don't know how long that failure mode has been in place or if this is relevant, but it makes me think of analogous times I've encountered similar: When automated systems are first put in place, for something high risk, "just shut down if you see something that may be an error" is a totally reasonable plan. After all, literally yesterday they were all functioning without the automated system, if it doesn't seem to b…

> The general engineering challenge, is how we deal with little-used little-seen functionality (definitely thinking of fault-handling, but there may be other cases) that is totally reasonable when put in place, but has not aged well, and nobody has noticed or realized it, and even if they did it might be hard to convince anyone it's a priority to improve, and the longer you wait the more expensive.

The solution to this is to trigger all functionality periodically and randomly to ensure it remains tested. If you don't test your backups, you don't have any.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#94

When there's no global clearing house for those identifiers, maybe namespaces would help? Related: The editorialized HN title uses nanometers (nm) when they possibly mean nautical miles (nmi). What would a flight control system make of that?

Every aircraft I’ve ever flown as either Pilot in Command or required crewmember, and also every marine navigation system I have used in my life has displayed distance information as nm, Nm, or NM, interchangeably. I have never been confused by this, and I have never seen any other crew be confused. I have not ever seen any version of nmi used, in any variation of capitalization. This includes Boeing flight decks, Airbus flight decks, general aviation Garmin equipment, and a few MIL aircraft. And some boats.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C dev: "You are telling me that the three digit codes are not globally unique??? And now we have to add more bits to the struct?? That's going to kill our perfectly optimized bit layout in memory! F***! This whole app is going to sh**"

> C dev: "You are telling me that the three digit codes are not globally unique??? They are understood not to be. They are generally known to be regionally unique. The "DVL" code is unique with-in FAA/Transport Canada control, and the "DVL" is unique with-in EASA space. There are pre-defined three-letter codes: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IATA_airport_code And pre-defined four-letter codes: * https://en.wikipedia…

Hum... Somebody has a list of foreign local-codes sharing the same space as the local ones?

I assumed IATA messed up, not I'm wondering how that even happens. It's not even easy to discover the local codes of remote aviation authorities.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#98
post #70
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was clarifying the post title, which uses "nm".

Yes, it looks like they should have written "NM" instead of "nm".

No one is using nanometers in aviation navigation. Quite a few aviation systems are case insensitive or all caps only so you can't always make a distinction.

In fact, if you say "miles", you mean nautical miles. You have to use "sm" to mean statute miles if you're using that unit, which is often used for measuring visibility.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#99
post #93

I don't know how long that failure mode has been in place or if this is relevant, but it makes me think of analogous times I've encountered similar: When automated systems are first put in place, for something high risk, "just shut down if you see something that may be an error" is a totally reasonable plan. After all, literally yesterday they were all functioning without the automated system, if it doesn't seem to b…

> The general engineering challenge, is how we deal with little-used little-seen functionality (definitely thinking of fault-handling, but there may be other cases) that is totally reasonable when put in place, but has not aged well, and nobody has noticed or realized it, and even if they did it might be hard to convince anyone it's a priority to improve, and the longer you wait the more expensive. The solution to th…

Which company deployed a chaos monkey deamon on their systems? Seemed to improve resiliency when I read about it.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#100
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The general engineering challenge, is how we deal with little-used little-seen functionality (definitely thinking of fault-handling, but there may be other cases) that is totally reasonable when put in place, but has not aged well, and nobody has noticed or realized it, and even if they did it might be hard to convince anyone it's a priority to improve, and the longer you wait the more expensive. The solution to th…

Which company deployed a chaos monkey deamon on their systems? Seemed to improve resiliency when I read about it.

Netflix did that many years ago, interesting idea even if a bit disruptive in the beginning https://netflix.github.io/chaosmonkey/
Post reply on HN