Live data from Hacker News

The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

afterbabel.com

91–100 of 528 posts

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#91

As someone who's worked in EdTech for around two decades, I know why people think this. It's what a lot people here have already said. Education is what is failing, EdTech didn't magically solve this. Just like money, you can't just throw tech at education and expect it to solve anything. There are too many profitable incentives to poor education that are conspiring to perpetuate it. An ill-educated populace is easie…

Well put, all around! If it makes you feel better, state-funded education has, as a rule, pretty much always been babysitting. As we fight together for a brighter future, I think it’s important to know that we’re building something new and glorious, not restoring some natural status quo.

Tho I’m no history buff. Maybe some civilization had really great public schools? Designating only a small portion of your population as True Pure Citizens does tend to help with stuff like that

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#92

The teaching method I find best is a teacher explaining and writing with chalk on the blackboard, and the students taking handwritten notes on paper, asking whenever something is not clear. In other words, the most boring classical setup possible. Of course all the nuances and little details make all the difference: board picture, structure, teacher personality, pacing, choice of topic, interaction, motivation, excit…

Seems like there might be some survivorship bias here, right? You teach students who made it to a top university because they thrived in the classical setup which is the most common one. Presumably your preferred teaching style aligning well with the classical approach also helped get you to that position.

Personally I feel like my education/learning only really started to take off when resources like EdX and Coursera became available. I did reasonably well at uni but was not motivated with others deciding what I had to learn and when. Lectures tended to be slow paced and often boring, so I zoned out instead of being pulled in (I passed my exams by working through the problem sets in the textbooks, I skipped most lectures).

When I got the ability to play/pause/skip/1.5-2x videos, and when I could choose what subject to learn like a kid in a candy shop, I did start consuming lectures much more aggressively. Still, I think well designed problem sets and assignments actually do the bulk of the work when it comes to learning/teaching, and I regularly skip the lectures and dive right to those.

Not saying that your method doesn't work, or that it shouldn't work for you, but its suitability depends on the topic, the student, and the setting.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#93
post #38

Could it be that part of the failure is that EdTech companies are focused on replacing the pedagogical aspect of schools, but the main utility of schools for parents is not pedagogy - it is a daycare centre for kids while parents go on about their careers?

While I don't doubt that a benefit of schools is you don't have to pay for day care while you pursue a career, that is far from the "main utility" of schools.

The main utility of schools, despite the hyperbole on the internet, is to educate and cultivate a productive, adjusted society. Yes there is overlap with what parents do, yes there is overlap with daycare. But those are ancillary benefits, not the ultimate goal.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#94
post #45

IMO education is still built around Victorian structures and needs to be reworked from examinations downwards. Examinations are an exercise in being good at examinations, not proficiency in the subject. Once you strip that away the you wind back all the structures that feed it. You can see this working at schools designed for the neuro diverse. Those students simply can't sit and listen to a teacher all day, so each…

What, specifically, is an example of an exam not measuring proficiency? If an exam is well designed, the student will need to figure out what is being asked and use their mastery to provide an answer.

> What, specifically, is an example of an exam not measuring proficiency

Not op, but a few examples:

1. Test structures that reward good time management. The paper SAT is a good example of this. The early items in a section are (were?) easy, the middle items were medium difficulty, and the toughest items were towards the end. A good test take would manage their time so that they spent the most amount of time on questions that could improve their scores — later questions for high achievers, but the middle questions for folks who were missing a lot of questions in that range.

2. Test structures that reward endurance. Again, SAT is a good example. How often have examinees sat down in a multi-hour high-stakes testing situation before taking the SAT. “Not often enough to feel comfortable” is usually the answer. I have taken some foreign language proficiency tests that were also multi-hour long endeavors. I practiced answer old exam questions in a testing environment, so the tests were easy for me. Some of my peers did not, and fatigue seemed to be a part of their challenge.

3. I took some “issue spotter” tests in college. I had never heard of or seen an issue spotter test before. I bombed my first one. My professor kindly walked me through things he knew I knew the answers to that would what given me credit. I aced all future issue-spotter exams. Side note: familiarity with test/question format seems to matter for better students, but it largely doesn’t for unmotivated students. Many studies on familiarity with test/question format show no correlation, but my personal experience (as a test giver) is that this is due to lumping the unmotivated and ambivalent examinees with the folks who notice, care, and take action.

There are many more answers to your question, but the above are few decent examples.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#95

As someone who's worked in EdTech for around two decades, I know why people think this. It's what a lot people here have already said. Education is what is failing, EdTech didn't magically solve this. Just like money, you can't just throw tech at education and expect it to solve anything. There are too many profitable incentives to poor education that are conspiring to perpetuate it. An ill-educated populace is easie…

> There are too many profitable incentives to poor education that are conspiring to perpetuate it. An ill-educated populace is easier to manipulate, gravitate towards consumerism, and won't hold their leaders as accountable. Power generally resides with those who benefit from an ill-educated populace, so anything that would actually help educate children and people at large is discouraged.

I want to believe this but I can't honestly imagine someone actively thinking about this and dedicating part of their work to misinforming the poor intentionally.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#96
post #15

I think people, and society in general, need to be a lot more careful about buying into hype, and prematurely adopting hyped tech. Would you buy (or fly in) a "revolutionary" new jet, that (by the way) hasn't been tested, but it's makers are really hopeful it will be safe and perform better than other jets? IMHO, changes in education need to be studied for at least ten years, then rolled out slowly with much more ske…

> need to be studied for at least ten years, then rolled out slowly with much more skeptical study.

If you have ever been involved with education students doing studies you know that methodology here is the pretty lacking, and it’s hard to consider what could be done better (other than stop pretending these surveys mean anything).

I think we need to stop pretending that there is some magic technique that’s going to 5x performance.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#97
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, specifically, is an example of an exam not measuring proficiency? If an exam is well designed, the student will need to figure out what is being asked and use their mastery to provide an answer.

A good example in the UK is teaching students the FOIL technique for algebraic expansion. Students typically can expand (ax+b)(cx+d) because they've learnt a recipe but cannot expand say (ax2+bx+c)(dx+e). Many schools here focus on such tricks (nix the tricks was a great book focusing on such things) as schools here are judged on pass/fail rates. In general, exams are an excellent way to assess students en masse at t…

That, to me, is not a problem with the exam though. It's a problem of teaching to a special case and not the general case. If you want to find fault, it's in the incentive system. But I don't see how the exam itself is the problem.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#98
post #10

I work in EdTech, I have for a very long time now, and the problem I have seen is no one in education is willing to ACTUALLY let kids learn at their own level. The promise of EdTech was that kids could learn where they are. A kid who's behind can actually continue to learn rather than being left behind. A kid who's ahead can be nurtured. We had this. It worked well, in my opinion at least, and the number of complaint…

That's "equity" for you. We can't be unfair and give someone something that makes them better. It's easier to keep the top kids down than it is to lift the bottom kids up.

I find that an uncharitable take of equity. You can also make someone like that grow stronger so that they have more to contribute to society. “Strongest shoulders carrying the heaviest burden” and all that (it’s a Dutch saying about the Dutch tax system).

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#99
post #53

The teaching method I find best is a teacher explaining and writing with chalk on the blackboard, and the students taking handwritten notes on paper, asking whenever something is not clear. In other words, the most boring classical setup possible. Of course all the nuances and little details make all the difference: board picture, structure, teacher personality, pacing, choice of topic, interaction, motivation, excit…

My wife had one kid scream for 10 minutes yesterday and another throw a chair. Another just sat there and didn't do a thing for 7 hours. The Little House/Christmas Story model hasn't been able to work for a long time.

> My wife had one kid scream for 10 minutes yesterday

Did she actually allow this kid to disrupt the entire class for 10 minutes? Isn't there a responsibility to all the other students that they should have a reasonable learning environment?

I remember being sent to the office for a lot less than that.

Re: The EdTech Revolution Has Failed

#100

It seems the real issue here is that school devices should be locked down better? It's honestly shocking they aren't already. Why on Earth would kids be allowed to access TikTok over their school network? Mind-boggling, seriously.

Fascinating. I teach and believe the devices should be more open. I've personally witnessed student agitation, anger, anxiety etc when barred from changing their wallpaper, from adding a bookmark to Chrome, from changing basic accessibility settings. I have a hard time seeing how we can lock these devices down any further.

Though I do believe schools need an edu version of YouTube. YouTube kids is too childish for older students. But regular YouTube has too much inappropriate stuff on it. That's a tough one.

Post reply on HN