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German coalition government collapses

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Re: German coalition government collapses

#91

Post by mmarq »

nosianu wrote: post #15
killjoywashere wrote: post #9

So, destabilized democracies seems to be the theme of the early 21st century: the UK (Brexit), the US (twice) and now rumbles from Germany. Great

This is not destabilizing this democracy. The FDP has done that same thing before - twice! In 1966 and 1982. Abandoning a non-functioning government and calling new elections is part of democracies. Just ask the Italians (68 governments in 76 years), or recently the French and the Brits.

> Just ask the Italians (68 governments in 76 years)

For 50 years Italy was ruled by the same party. Governments changed just to allow more people from the same party to be ministers.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#92

Post by qwertox »

0x000xca0xfe wrote: post #48
probably_wrong wrote: post #25

If the future German Chancellor is here, here's my proposal for your new campaign: "We choose to build one million affordable apartments in four years, not because it's easy but because it's hard". It may not solve all of Germany's problems but at least you'll energize the construction sector, alleviate the housing crisis, learn how to finish a construction project on time and you'll have to remove some bureaucracy t…

That was essentially the slogan of the current coalition and they failed completely.

"Schuldenbremse". "Debt"+"brake", brake as in what forces a car to stop.

Keep in mind that Russian's attack on the Ukraine, which lead to the destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline, didn't happen until after the election. I don't understand how people blend this out so easily.

Let's assume your important car breaks down because of a strange, non-technical reason, which isn't covered by any insurance. If you don't have enough money, you will have to borrow some, you will have to go into debt, unless you are able to reduce your expenses otherwise.

During the entire time of this coalition you had the finance minister saying that the debt brake is holy, therefore restricting in cash those in the coalition which his party disliked the most, always saying: "But the debt brake." - well knowing that those affected by the constrained cash flow would get bad publicity because they can't do their job, corrected: because they're personally unfit to do what they should do, because "they are losers". All this, while not proposing a real solution to the problem.

They suggested to decrease government spending, which is - of course - something every government should strive for, but this is something which cannot be done in a few years if it means to reduce bureaucracy. This requires modification of laws, which always is a slow process, and firing officials, which is a no-go for absolutely every party.

Their reasonable expectation of lowering financial support for those who are too lazy to work or are illegal immigrants, which are able to live without working because of it's better for them to just cash-in from the government, isn't something which would free up a significant amount of cash. Nevertheless it's something which should be done to send a signal.

Cheap gas had become the foundation of Germany's economy, which is why the USA and other European countries rightly always pointed out that Germany is too reliant on Russian gas. So it's kind odd if now the opposition blames the current government for all the problems. There are also enough videos which show the finance minister saying that the automotive industry has no problems in competitiveness. This was pre-pandemic, post Dieselgate. Because that was what the automotive industry paid him for to say. And now they are surprised that they are collapsing.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#93

Post by qwertox »

tcfhgj wrote: post #71
jalapenos wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievably bad government behaviour. Allow mass immigration, to enjoy the boost in tax revenues and GDP, while dumping all the costs and fallout on the people. Rents skyrocketed, utility bills getting more expensive, waiting twice as long for a doctor? Well that's not my problem, is it pleb? It'd be one thing if they were actively clearing the path for it to minimise impact. Preemptively clearing land and buil…

There is no mass immigration

Not yet, but it's already big enough to notice the problems it brings.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#94

Post by ywvcbk »

greenavocado wrote: post #64
jalapenos wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievably bad government behaviour. Allow mass immigration, to enjoy the boost in tax revenues and GDP, while dumping all the costs and fallout on the people. Rents skyrocketed, utility bills getting more expensive, waiting twice as long for a doctor? Well that's not my problem, is it pleb? It'd be one thing if they were actively clearing the path for it to minimise impact. Preemptively clearing land and buil…

I invite anybody to show me any credible evidence the immigration has a positive Net Present Value (NPV). The purpose was the destruction of the status quo, not improved tax revenues and GDP, but rather its replacement with a compliant, desperate, and above all else, an obedient population.

US has generally done alright? It comes down to who the immigrants are and how much money are they making. If they are in high value industries like tech how can they not generate any value?

Re: German coalition government collapses

#95

Post by atoav »

greenavocado wrote: post #64
jalapenos wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievably bad government behaviour. Allow mass immigration, to enjoy the boost in tax revenues and GDP, while dumping all the costs and fallout on the people. Rents skyrocketed, utility bills getting more expensive, waiting twice as long for a doctor? Well that's not my problem, is it pleb? It'd be one thing if they were actively clearing the path for it to minimise impact. Preemptively clearing land and buil…

I invite anybody to show me any credible evidence the immigration has a positive Net Present Value (NPV). The purpose was the destruction of the status quo, not improved tax revenues and GDP, but rather its replacement with a compliant, desperate, and above all else, an obedient population.

Living in a migration heavy, booming German city I have to remind everyone that:

1. Migration is not distributed equally, it will mainly affect metropolitan areas

2. Metropolitan areas are usually doing well economically, but housing can become an issue. Not only due to foreigners, but also because people move in from the countryside and tourists need accomodation

3. Metropolitan areas are also not voting right wing

That means the areas voting against immigration are the ones who experience its impacts the least, except for the fact that young people tend to migrate away from these places. If that comes as a surprise to you you didn't look at the numbers.

The argument against migration in Germany isn't rational or economic, it is emotional¹.

The next question woud be whether these right wing parties are actually gonna reduce migration numbers. They don't have any incentive to do so as people vote them based on that — people who vote based on emotion not based on track record. So it happens that under some right wing governments migration numbers are actually higher than under other governments before and after.

¹: I recall seeing a German family on the subway who in shock proclaimed: "Oh mh god, there are so many foreigners" as she clutched her bag. I, a blonde blue eyed guy, asked her how she knew I was Austrian and that she does not need to worry since I have rode with that subway for 6 years and never seen or heard of any crime being committed, but whether she trusts me as an foreigner is another question — usually they mean: brown people.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#96

Post by nicbou »

greenavocado wrote: post #64
jalapenos wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievably bad government behaviour. Allow mass immigration, to enjoy the boost in tax revenues and GDP, while dumping all the costs and fallout on the people. Rents skyrocketed, utility bills getting more expensive, waiting twice as long for a doctor? Well that's not my problem, is it pleb? It'd be one thing if they were actively clearing the path for it to minimise impact. Preemptively clearing land and buil…

I invite anybody to show me any credible evidence the immigration has a positive Net Present Value (NPV). The purpose was the destruction of the status quo, not improved tax revenues and GDP, but rather its replacement with a compliant, desperate, and above all else, an obedient population.

You get skilled workers that you didn’t have to raise and educate, and their presence in the country is tied to their employment. Many will leave long before they need to use your healthcare system or collect a pension.

The greatest cost is that they also have expectations like shelter and functional services. Germany failing to meet this expectation was not caused by immigration. Immigration is not to blame for Germany failing to modernise its bureaucracy and its infrastructure.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#97

Post by ywvcbk »

macintux wrote: post #54
klipklop wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At no point did those Jan6 people have the ability to actually overthrow the US government. Let's not exaggerate their ability to take over all US armed forces and government operations. Jan6 was more a barnacle on the leviathan that is the US government.

They absolutely had the opportunity to give the president an excuse to stay in power. “The electoral ballots have been compromised, Congress is in disarray with its leadership killed. I’m staying in office for the duration of this emergency, and the states will decide on a process to select new electors, or the House of Representatives will elect the next president per its Constitutional authority.”

Virginia and Maryland were on the brink of invading DC (had the government continued to resist deploying the National Guard and the riot got even more out of hand) with all the bizarre consequences of that…

To be fair it’s not like the mob was that determined and capable to actually murder Pence etc. (at least there weren’t any clear signs of it). They scattered immediately after the first guns were fired (I mean those close enough to witness it). So more people might have died but it would have primarily been the rioters rather than anyone else..

Re: German coalition government collapses

#98

Post by ywvcbk »

tcfhgj wrote: post #70
rasmus1610 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Just had a longer discussion with my wife just now why this is. So many discussions in Germany revolve around ideology and not what’s best in the situation right now.

Very vague content free statement. Best is subjective, some care about human rights, some care about their children, some care about people other than themselves and others don't care and frame everything they don't care about as ideology.

Governments should always be primarily rational and utilitarian rather than ideological.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#99

Post by nicbou »

cryptica wrote: post #14

It's frustrating to watch governments constantly argue over what they should do to help the economy when what they should be arguing about is what they should undo to stop hindering the economy.

In Germany, it seems somewhat obvious: a more efficient bureaucracy. Everything is bogged down in red tape and bureaucratic processes, most of which are completely archaic and actively hostile to digitalisation.

I am a strong proponent of regulation, but the kind that involves computers, not faxes.

Re: German coalition government collapses

#100

Post by ywvcbk »

huijzer wrote: post #27
mschuster91 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need to let crazy people do crazy things (within the law of course). Yeah, like stripping away LGBT rights or abortion? The far-right, no matter if we are talking about the US, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Argentinia, Israel or the UK, has clearly stated what they want to do, and they have shown in more than enough cases (Argentinia, USA, UK) that they are willing to throw the entire nation under the bus for…

I don’t know about you, but I actually watched interviews with Trump and he mostly seems to indicate that he doesn’t want a nation-wide ban on abortion. It should be up for individual states to decide. Although I’m in favor of more choice for women, I don’t think Trump’s stance is completely unreasonable. There are already more than enough federal rules and some states want to be more strict. But you make it sound li…

> he doesn’t want a nation-wide ban

I guess he’s too old now but it still must be pretty personal to him.

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