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Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

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Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#91

Post by WiSaGaN »

chii wrote: post #35
bruce511 wrote: post #30

Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…

> there's less incentive for China to control Taiwan. a very minor effect imho. china doesn't want to control taiwan due to any economic reasons. It's ideological. China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model. Look at how hong kong was cracked down; china took the opportunity to do it, when the econ…

This is such a ridiculous claim. China wants to unify with Taiwan well before US fully allows African American to vote, as guranteed by Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#92

Post by bruce511 »

PittleyDunkin wrote: post #71
bruce511 wrote: post #30

Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…

> The ban exists as good politics (we don't ship to our adversaries) Do normal people really view china as an adversary? I see this constantly being pushed by politicians and pundits but, unlike other countries in my lifetime, I don't really see that much animosity from normal folk. Expats who resent the PRC? Absolutely. Racism? Definitely. But there's not much appetite for the demonization of our largest trade partn…

Not sure why you're getting downvotes, it's a legitimate question.

There are different kinds of adversary. A traditional tactic in politics is to find someone to blame. Trump blames immigrants, Muslims and China. He translated this into economic action by putting tarrifs on Chinese goods. (Tarrifs are a terrible idea, but one of the few things the president can do unilaterally.)

Thanks to his years of anti-chinese rhetoric, I think there's a substantial number of people who gave drunk that kool-aid and see China as adversarial.

Geopolitically, China is investing heavily in influence. There are lots of programs in other countries (especially Africa and Asia) where they are fostering trade and building infrastructure. This comes largely at the expense of US influence.

Militarily they are growing, and are one of the few countries which could inflict serious losses on American forces. They wouldn't win (yet) but the American public has less appetite for high losses than the Chinese do.

None of which stops them being huge trading partners of course. But the pendulum is swinging, and that distresses a significant number of US folk.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#93

Post by shunia_huang »

chii wrote: post #41
tightbookkeeper wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Chinese citizens know the US exists? This feels like projection. The US wants to act as if stock markets and political yard signs are the only usable system.

> But Chinese citizens know the US exists? of course, but the US is not mostly composed of chinese people. It is common belief in china that the state governance by the CCP is doing good for the country, and the proof is economic progress, material wealth and geopolitical strength.

> It is common belief in china that the state governance by the CCP is doing good for the country, and the proof is economic progress, material wealth and geopolitical strength.

I don't know, but how to define if a country is going towards a better path, if all the changes listed does not count?

If the people there belives, is it unresonable that the people not there argue about that?

I'm not saying it is not arguable, it really falls down to the North-Korea situation that almost everyone inside or outside see that place as hell, but I'm not sure if China feels alike here - a country does have significant economic progress, material wealth and 'geopolitical strength', which I don't think NK has all these.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#94

Post by twelve40 »

bruce511 wrote: post #30

Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…

> back-channels ensure they aren't forced into a position

That's a great observation. Except in this case this back-channel is kind of glaringly public and possibly illegal?

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#95

Post by eloisius »

Log_out_ wrote: post #81
Tier3r wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There exists a third possibility where the US and China sign an under the table deal for China to invade, the US to saber rattle and China to allow the flow of chips to continue. The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind.

But taiwan has nukes now in all but name? As the us becomes a non-reliable ally everyone with money and a shopping list bordering a totalitarian country heads for Pakistan ?

Since when has Taiwan had nukes? There was a nuclear program in the 80s and the US pressured them to abandon it. Even civilian nuclear engineering is not very popular in Taiwan. I’d be kind of surprised if Taiwan had any kind of nuclear weapons program and it wasn’t an international crisis, given how thoroughly each side of the straight spy on the other.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#97

Post by starspangled »

est wrote: post #72
bruce511 wrote: post #30

Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…

> Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports Are there any "exports" to ban after the fall? The TSMC production was interrupted by a metro passing by few kilometers away. How can it sustain in a war?

If the factories weren't bombed before Taiwan fell to the communists, I'd imagine hey would still be cut off from western semiconductor technology, so they would still end up falling behind even if they could get them restarted.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#98

Post by EasyMark »

burningChrome wrote: post #36
nemothekid wrote: post #27

We will see what happens - but given nvidias growth and how heavy they are now weighted I’m skeptical there will be any enforcement until well after the elections. Neither party wants to look “bad for the economy”, even if the people harmed isn’t of significant size.

>> Neither party wants to look “bad for the economy You mean like the horrific jobs numbers that came out that nobody is covering either? Like bad like that??

I saw it in several business sections. Is that the the "nobody covering it" part? The numbers a likely due to several one-off occurrences that aren't like to hit semi-perfect status again for a while. No reason given the numbers that it's not a fluke with the history of the previous months.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#99

Post by jojobas »

bruce511 wrote: post #30

Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…

So what you're saying is that the lesson of appeasing Hitler was all in vain.

Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions

#100

Post by EasyMark »

sourraspberry wrote: post #20

Close this loophole and another one opens. The ban was and is incredibly shortsighted.

The ban is very forward-thinking and acknowledging the reality of the situation that China is not our friend and there's no reason to be shipping them our best military and semiconductor IP. They are not going to use it to make US/China relations improve or a better world.
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