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China sanctions US drone maker Skydio

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Re: China sanctions US drone maker Skydio

#91

Post by AStonesThrow »

aurareturn wrote: post #15
orange_joe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really think a sanctioned entity is under obligation to argue “both sides”. I doubt Chinese companies under similar conditions will do so, or have done so in the past.

Funny thing is, when I talk to Chinese people in China, nearly all of them understand why the US and China are fighting: economic reasons. There isn't the same level of hate/demonization of the US in China as there is the opposite in US. People in China seem to be able to separate the emotions from the situation and able to understand the circumstance logically. Meanwhile, in the US, it's become more of a hate thing…

Nah it's more than that.

China is different. Really different. Our old adversaries the Russians/Soviets are like brotherly chums compared to the Chinese.

China has always had a separate sphere of influence, distinct language, culture, religions, geography. It's way out there.

Look at all the conflicts the West has had with Japan, Korea, and Vietnam. Those were not merely economic wars. There was ideology involved at every step. Go back thousands of years, and see the Assyrians evangelizing China (not so effective or memorable.) See the Jesuits and other missionaries landing in Asia and making some inroads, then getting expelled, persecuted, martyred.

The big trouble is, with China, Americans have freely entangled ourselves economically with them for a long, long time. And this made for a tacit friendship, while we were fundamentally opposed in other aspects. But China patiently manufactured luxurious silk, delicious opium, cheap toys, and worthless crap to send us, and they Hoovered up all our debt, and our garbage and "recycling", and they bought controlling interests in businesses such as banks and whatnot.

But an economic relationship is not a friendship, it's transactional, and hopefully it's equalizing, and our economic agreements have been stable enough, but they're not strong enough to overcome ideologies.

So now you can see, perhaps, why Americans are scared and looking to extricate ourselves. I wouldn't say it's about "protectionism" because that has some negative or extreme connotations. I'd just say we're trying to be not so globalist, because the globalism eventually comes back to haunt us.

Re: China sanctions US drone maker Skydio

#94

Post by maxglute »

simne wrote: post #43
aurareturn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean in general, starting with Huawei.

Huawei got sanctions after catch on spy activity. Who else you know?

Huawei got entity listed for selling to Iran (which Nokia and many other western companies does as well). There has never been any evidence proving Huawei espionage activity, which it can obviously be used for. Only Huawei gear has enabled foreign govs to undermine US espionage / influence efforts, iirc Huawei tech helping some african country using lawful intercept technologies to bust US aligned activists.

Re: China sanctions US drone maker Skydio

#95

Post by coliveira »

Sabinus wrote: post #87
coliveira wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is China threatening any American owned territory? If not, why do you conclude that the US needs to go to war?

Because the US is the primary enforcer of the world order that mandates, broadly, that everyone can trade with no fear of attacks on their shipping, and that we don't steal each other's land any more. When the US gives up on that role, the world is going to change drastically, and not for the better.

> the US is the primary enforcer of the world order

Nobody gave the US this legal power. It has no credibility there.

> everyone can trade with no fear of attacks on their shipping

Right now this is false around the area controlled by the Houthis.

> we don't steal each other's land any more

Israelis are stealing land with US support.

Re: China sanctions US drone maker Skydio

#96

Post by themaninthedark »

aurareturn wrote: post #57
themaninthedark wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "everything Chinese will inevitably get the "China bad" treatment." China is either the 2nd or 3rd largest trading partner of the US. A large amount of our finished consumer good come from there as well are raw industrial inputs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa... https://usafacts.org/articles/who-are-the-uss-top-trade-part...

China mostly exports goods lower on the value chain. When China tries to move up in the value chain such as exporting whole cars, phones, networking gear, software, that's where the "China bad" becomes much more of a problem for Chinese companies.

I have seen concerns about Chinese software and network gear along the lines of "if this is compromised we would loose everything", which is not a bad position from a security standpoint.

Phones: There was a very large acceptance of OnePlus and other Chinese phones in the US.

Cars: China has just recently started to try and export cars to the US and it looks like the US is putting up trade barriers to prevent that. There are several factors in this, i.e. domestic worker protection.

The only one that may be considered "China Bad" is network gear and software, since the concern is the state apparatus compromising the product being received.

For all other's I have not seen a daemonization of China or Chinese people.

Re: China sanctions US drone maker Skydio

#97

Post by kortilla »

aurareturn wrote: post #56
kortilla wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a false premise. The government in the US does not need popular approval to do things. There isn’t direct voting on any of these actions and pressure on politicians is indirect and very slow for all but extremely egregious actions.

>That’s a false premise. The government in the US does not need popular approval to do things. Are you sure about that? Every US history class I've ever taken growing up told me about some form of propaganda usage by the US government prior to some action. WWI, WWII, Cold War, Vietnam War, Iraq War etc.

There wasn’t propaganda before WW2. Japan hit Pearl Harbor and the US was at war by the time people were just hearing about it.

The only propaganda before Vietnam was the general red scare. Nothing specifically prepping people to go to war in Vietnam. Once there, propaganda definitely ramped up to keep people happy with a draft.

The point is that no approval is needed to do stuff. There is often propaganda later to help justify it, but that doesn’t limit the speed or capability of what can be done.

Re: China sanctions US drone maker Skydio

#98

Post by Sabinus »

coliveira wrote: post #95
Sabinus wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the US is the primary enforcer of the world order that mandates, broadly, that everyone can trade with no fear of attacks on their shipping, and that we don't steal each other's land any more. When the US gives up on that role, the world is going to change drastically, and not for the better.

> the US is the primary enforcer of the world order Nobody gave the US this legal power. It has no credibility there. > everyone can trade with no fear of attacks on their shipping Right now this is false around the area controlled by the Houthis. > we don't steal each other's land any more Israelis are stealing land with US support.

[flagged]

Re: China sanctions US drone maker Skydio

#99

Post by preisschild »

flykespice wrote: post #81
preisschild wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Not a single one in the last 100 years Here is a ChatGPT response to you because I wont bother with kneejerk responses: In the last 100 years, the United States has been involved in several military invasions and interventions in various countries. Some notable examples include: Mexico (1914) - U.S. forces occupied Veracruz. Haiti (1915-1934) - U.S. Marines occupied Haiti to stabilize the country. Dominican Republi…

ChatGPT can't even subtract 100? The first 3 examples are over 100 years and most of those were just helping allies. Note that I also said "annex".

Re: China sanctions US drone maker Skydio

#100

Post by aguaviva »

Sabinus wrote: post #98
coliveira wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US is the primary enforcer of the world order Nobody gave the US this legal power. It has no credibility there. > everyone can trade with no fear of attacks on their shipping Right now this is false around the area controlled by the Houthis. > we don't steal each other's land any more Israelis are stealing land with US support.

[flagged]

Plus that conflict is quite complicated, predates WW2 and the imposition of this system, and the US does not support the settlers.

It's not that complicated, actually. The US is technically not a fan of the settlements, but its criticisms have been muted to the point of silence for several years now.

Meanwhile, what matters is what happens on the ground. As long as Israel keeps doing the settlements dance, and US military aid keeps flowing with no restrictions, and it does not take aggressive action against the settlers' base of support within the US itself, then de facto "the US supports the settlements", and that's pretty much all there is to it.

On top of this, other extremely regrettable actions it has taken (such as endorsing move of the capital to Jerusalem) signal tacit support of the Greater Israel project generally (which the settlements are the primary vanguard of).

That's not an invasion in the classic nation-state sense since the Palestinians have never had a country.

What matters is that it's both theft and plunder on a grand scale, and ethnic cleansing in the classic mold. Mincing words does not change this fact.

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