Funny, psilocybin has been largely detrimental to the mental health of everyone I know.
Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
91–100 of 397 posts
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not clear cut. There clearly exist plenty of combinations of "situation + physician" where this is not the best thing to do. To claim otherwise may as well be religious dogma.
I'm sorry, but how is trusting a person who dedicated 10+ years of their life studying/practicing this, and relying on rigorous safety and effectiveness research of drugs religious dogma? Are you sure you know what religion is? Are you sure you know what science is? Are you just trolling?
Case in point: 50,000 people died, with about 5 times as many suffering life-changing serious adverse events, from “rigorous research” on the safety of Vioxx. Yes, it has since been pulled from the market, which FDA apologists often construe as “system working as designed”. No, it isn’t, even in the least, when you go into the details.
Also: Purdue and OxyContin.
Regulatory capture of the FDA is decades old at this point. Ignoring that is not a rational or healthy position.
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#93> "Psychiatrists really focus on negative symptoms of depression. So, if you are not sad anymore, if your sleep or appetite is not impaired, they think you're better. But if you look at what patients define as important, they say it's the degree in which their life is meaningful, in which they can connect with people around them, in which they can function in everyday life," Barba said. A more wholistic approach to h…
> I often hear people talk about the risks of psychedelics, which are to be considered, but what’s the risk of doing nothing or withholding the best treatment? The risk is to make things worse. And I know that I am preaching to people that are of the opinion that they know better than the FDA, scientists and doctors and are all for self-medicating based off of the echo chamber here and a few cherry-picked, limited an…
Anyone can have a horrible response with too high of a dose yet with self-medicating theres no sure way to know the amount of medicine you’ve ingested even if weighing.
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not clear cut. There clearly exist plenty of combinations of "situation + physician" where this is not the best thing to do. To claim otherwise may as well be religious dogma.
I'm sorry, but how is trusting a person who dedicated 10+ years of their life studying/practicing this, and relying on rigorous safety and effectiveness research of drugs religious dogma? Are you sure you know what religion is? Are you sure you know what science is? Are you just trolling?
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't want people self-medicating with psilocybin, just like I don't want people self-medicating with SSRIs. Which is more dangerous?
The best thing to do is to consult with a physician on matters related to your health.
No it’s not the best thing to do to brave huge waiting lists, call a hundred providers none of whom are taking new patients, pay a fortune out of pocket, and/or be faced with a distracted impatient person stuck to their screen who has 10 minutes for you.
And I live in Germany, not the US.
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
From what I understand, those “magic mushroom” edibles sold in head shops and gas stations are amanita muscaria derived, which is a completely different psychoactive substance with different alkaloids. Toxic to the liver too, in ways that a cubensis is not.
Northern shamans drank reindeer urine after the animals had eaten amanita muscaria. Passing through the animals reduced the toxic component but left enough alkaloid to trip balls. Maybe the gas station edibles have removed the toxin.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/magic-mushrooms-found-in-recall...
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#97Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh sometimes you need to encounter your demons,” maybe that will be temporarily traumatizing—in general people recover from that. The real issues are…more complex. More complex than any diagnoses in the DSM can cover. The brain is very complicated, and everyone’s brain…
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Psylocybin? Easily? You have to put effort into making an experience with psylocybin meaningful and helpful. It could go wrong very easily, especially for those who are in a difficult situation or headspace. (Speaking from experience.) As for SSRIs? Safe, effective, with a handful of annoying side effects. Straightforward to use, low potential for misuse, requires sustained use for any intended effects. A doctor who…
> Psylocybin? Easily? Err.. no? This is from the Dutch National Institute for Public Health and the Environment: https://www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/340001001.pdf Page 19 onward has the charts. What do do we find at the very low end in terms of chronic and acute toxicity? Shrooms (“paddos”) and LSD. It always blows my mind how anti-drug people will do a handwavey gesture to the authority of institutes like the…
I'm also unfamiliar with the dose of SSRIs that would send you into a coma, but I'm fairly certain it's shockingly large. Happy to be informed otherwise.
edit to reflect parent edit: yes, I'm aware that breakthrough experiences can be helpful. I'm also saying they should not be your first resort.
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#99Ok like most of you I’ve taken psychedelic drugs. I’ve had bad experiences sure, but I’m fine now. The issue is that what people generally say, like, “oh sometimes you need to encounter your demons,” maybe that will be temporarily traumatizing—in general people recover from that. The real issues are…more complex. More complex than any diagnoses in the DSM can cover. The brain is very complicated, and everyone’s brain…
Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison
#100Working as a clinical psychologist, who also reads a lot of research, this study is just another brick in the wall that I am banging my head against when it comes to doing actual evidence-based therapy. I actually read the entire paper and the pre-registration. The title on Medscape and the article are, to me, completely reading the research wrong, and just another example of the actual research design and findings living in a different universe than the press release and subsequent discussion.
Let me try to communicate why I feel this way by summarizing the research in my way, as opposed to the title: "Psilocybin Bests SSRI for Major Depression in First Long-Term Comparison."
Hers my take: Research finds no significant difference between psilocybin and SSRI in the primary outcome from pre-registration (self-reported depression on an emailed form), even when only administering SSRI for 6 weeks, where the maximum effect of SSRI is expected at 12 weeks. As such, this does not even qualify as standard treatment with SSRI. This is after excluding 90% of the applicants for the study. The effectiveness is primary supported by p-hacking, as seen by reporting additional measures not in the registered, where some of them favor psilocybin. And SSRI actually scores BETTER in the main outcome.
Now, someone might come along and call me cynical, mistaken, or worse. But having been through this with biofeedback, metacognitive therapy, light therapy, mindfulness therapy, and ketamine treatment already, I can clearly see the same pattern: lying by omission, p-hacking, not taking into account the "decline effect," borderline acceptable results. It all culminates in a big nothingburger, and any progress for my field remains stagnant. Based on the quality of this study, I am certain that if we just aggressively started treating depression with psilocybin, I just know that it wouldn't make much difference, because I have been through it before with the exact same numbers and effect sizes, just different treatment modalities.
Here is the best indication I found for SSRI: Resistant phobic anxiety (panic attacks that don't stop even after long exposure), and burnout-related depression (person worked normally their whole life but is suddenly just empty of energy and does not look forward to anything with joy). These are examples that very often make a big difference with SSRI, in conjunction with therapy.
Psilocybin seems to work best for existential depression and anxiety that is driven by pathological self-focus (not egotism, but inability to stop focusing on one's own inner states).
But these personal theories are just that, and the studies that keep getting funding are very seldom useful, at least for me, as I genuinely am trying my best to help my patients.