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Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

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Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#91

Post by arnaudsm »

keithwhor wrote: post #85
arnaudsm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI's code quality leaves to be desired, which is surprising considering how well compensated their engineers are. Their recent realtime demo had so many race conditions, function calling didn't even work, and the patch suggested by the community hasn't been merged for a week. https://github.com/openai/openai-realtime-api-beta/issues/14

Hey! I was responsible for developing this. Not speaking for OpenAI here, only myself — but this is not an official SDK — only a reference implementation. The included relay is only intended as an example. The issues here will certainly be tackled for the production release of the API :). I’d love to build something more full-featured here and may approach it as a side project. Feel free to ping me directly if you ha…

Thank you, will contact you asap, I'd be happy to help :)

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#92

Post by doctorpangloss »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #87
hubraumhugo wrote: post #49

Has anyone seen AI agents working in production at scale? It doesn't matter if you're using Swarm, langchain, or any other orchestration framework if the underlying issue is that AI agents too slow, too expensive, and too unreliable. I wrote about AI agent hype vs. reality[0] a while ago, and I don't think it has changed yet. [0] https://www.kadoa.com/blog/ai-agents-hype-vs-reality

Yes we use agents in a human support agent facing application that has many sub agents used to summarize and analyze a lot of different models, prior support cases, knowledge base information, third party data sets, etc, to form an expert in a specific customer and their unique situation in detected potential fraud and other cases. The goal of the expert is to reduce the cognitive load of our support agent in analyzi…

Isn’t the best customer service:

    Cost to Solve
In other words, do the details matter? If the customer leaves because you don’t take a fraudulent $10 return, but he’s worth $1,000 in the long term, that’s dumb.

You might think that such a user doesn’t exist. Then you’d be getting the details wrong again! Example: Should ISPs disconnect users for piracy? Should Apple close your iCloud sub for pirating Apple TV? Should Amazon lose accounts for rejecting returns? Etc etc.

A business that makes CS more details oriented is 200% the wrong solution.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#93

Post by llm_trw »

ValentinA23 wrote: post #79
llm_trw wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could you elaborate please ? No. I've tried explaining this to supposedly smart people in both a 15 minute pitch deck and a research paper and unless they were inclined to think it from the start no amount of proof has managed to convince them. I figure it's just not possible to convince people, even with the proof in front of them, of how powerful the system is. The same way that we still have people arguing _right…

I'm inclined to think it from the start

If you care enough you can email me at omni_vision_ai@proton.me I'd be happy to talk more in a less public setting.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#94

Post by lmeyerov »

dimitri-vs wrote: post #88
d4rkp4ttern wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not you in particular, but I hear this common refrain that the "LLM landscape is shifting", but what exactly is shifting? Yes new models are constantly announced, but at the end of the day, interacting with the LLMs involves making calls to an API, and the OpenAI API (and perhaps Anthropic's variant) has become fairly established, and this API will obviously not change significantly any time soon. Given that there is…

Sonnet 3.5 and other large context models made context management approaches irrelevant and will continue to do so. o1 (and likely sonnet 3.5) made chain of through and other complex prompt engineering irrelevant. Realtime API (and others that will soon follow) will made the best VTT > LLM > TTV irrelevant. VLMs will likely make LLMs irrelevant. Who knows what Google has planned for Gemini 2. The point is building th…

I encourage you to run evals on result quality for real b2b tasks before making these claims. Almost all of your post is measurably wrong in ways that cause customers to churn an AI product same-day.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#95

Post by Quizzical4230 »

thawab wrote: post #68
Quizzical4230 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh! What really bothers me is that this kyegomez person wasted time and energy of so many people and for what?

followers, clicks? anyone who spends a few minutes browsing his repo will know he is a fraud. Here is an example: https://github.com/kyegomez/AlphaFold3 most issues are people not able to run his code. These issues are closed. The repo has 700 stars.

Saw an issue which fails at `pip install alphafold3`. If you're gonna bamboozle me, at least put in the effort to get the first step right Xp

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#96

Post by seanhunter »

sunnybeetroot wrote: post #70
seanhunter wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be pretty astonished if the complainer manages to get the trademark they think they have on "swarms" enforced. People have been using the word "swarm" in connection with simulations of various kinds for as long as I have been interested in simulations (I mean I think I first heard the word swarm in connection with a simulation in relation to something done by the santa fe institute in the 80s if memory serves…

You may be interested in seeing a reply by the creator in these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41819866

Yeah I saw it after posting my thing. So cool to have folks like that on this forum.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#97

Post by seanhunter »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #42
antfarm wrote: post #9

There used to be another open-source agentframework by the same name, but it was for multi-agent simulations. For a moment I thought there was a new wave of interest in a deeper understanding of complex systems by means of modelling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_(simulation) https://www.santafe.edu/research/results/working-papers/the-...

Hey, I wrote that! But it was nearly 30 years ago, it's OK for someone else to use the same name. Fun fact: Swarm was one of the very few non-NeXT/Apple uses of Objective C. We used the GNU Objective C runtime. Dynamic typing was a huge help for multiagent programming compared to C++'s static typing and lack of runtime introspection. (Again, nearly 30 years ago. Things are different now.)

Hey thanks for writing the original swarm. I found your framework very inspiring when I was conducting my own personal (pretty much universally failed) experiments into making this kind of multi-agent simulation.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#98

Post by fnordpiglet »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #92
fnordpiglet wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we use agents in a human support agent facing application that has many sub agents used to summarize and analyze a lot of different models, prior support cases, knowledge base information, third party data sets, etc, to form an expert in a specific customer and their unique situation in detected potential fraud and other cases. The goal of the expert is to reduce the cognitive load of our support agent in analyzi…

Isn’t the best customer service: Cost to Solve In other words, do the details matter? If the customer leaves because you don’t take a fraudulent $10 return, but he’s worth $1,000 in the long term, that’s dumb. You might think that such a user doesn’t exist. Then you’d be getting the details wrong again! Example: Should ISPs disconnect users for piracy? Should Apple close your iCloud sub for pirating Apple TV? Should…

The fraud we deal with is a lot more than $10.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#99

Post by az226 »

Quizzical4230 wrote: post #61
thawab wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This dude has issues, the reddit post in /r/MachineLearning top comment: > Yes, basically. Delete any kyegomez link on sight. He namesquats recent papers for the clout, though the code never actually runs, much less replicates the paper results. We've had problems in /r/mlscaling with people unwittingly linking his garbage - we haven't bothered to set up an Automod rule, though. [0] https://github.com/princeton-nlp/t…

Oh! What really bothers me is that this kyegomez person wasted time and energy of so many people and for what?

Just gonna leave this here: https://github.com/kyegomez/tree-of-thoughts/issues/78#issue...

Also this part from the reply before editing it away:

They get mad that my repo and code is better than their's and they published they paper, they feel entitled even though I reproduced the entire paper based on 4 phrases, dfs, bfs (search algos), generate solutions, and generate thoughts and this is it. I didn't even read the full paper when I first started to implement it. The reason they want people to unstar my repo is because they are jealous that they made a mistake by not sharing the code when they published the paper as real scientists would do. If you do not publish your code as a AI research scientists you are a heretic, as your work cannot be tried and tested. and the code works amazingly much better than theirs, I looked at their code and couldn't figure out how to run it for hours, as well as other people have reported the same. the motivations are jealously, self hatred, guilt, envy, inferiority complex, ego, and much more psychographic principles.

Re: Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI

#100

Post by Quizzical4230 »

az226 wrote: post #99
Quizzical4230 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh! What really bothers me is that this kyegomez person wasted time and energy of so many people and for what?

Just gonna leave this here: https://github.com/kyegomez/tree-of-thoughts/issues/78#issue... Also this part from the reply before editing it away: They get mad that my repo and code is better than their's and they published they paper, they feel entitled even though I reproduced the entire paper based on 4 phrases, dfs, bfs (search algos), generate solutions, and generate thoughts and this is it. I didn't even read th…

I have SO MANY THOUGHTS.

But its best to leave them out for sanity :)

Thanks for adding the unedited comment as it shines light over the newly fabricated comment.

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