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Rust needs a web framework

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Re: Rust needs a web framework

#91

Post by kelnos »

jvanderbot wrote: post #58
devjab wrote: post #10

> I like to make silly things, and I also like to put in minimal effort for those silly things. I also like to make things in Rust… I think this part is perhaps the silliest part of a very silly article. If you really like to put in a minimal effort then why on earth would you use Rust? If you want efficiency, memory management and a compiled modern language just use Go. Then you won’t even need anything but the stan…

Yes the intersection of compiled performant and web is mostly filled by Go.

It would be great to introduce some competition there, then!

(Not only because I think competition is good, but because I really do not enjoy writing Go.)

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#92

Post by bsnnkv »

throw10920 wrote: post #84
bsnnkv wrote: post #64

So strange reading all the comments here saying that Rust is not a language for "lazy developers". I'm an incredibly lazy developer and Rust only makes me lazier. I can pretty much turn off the part of my brain that deals with "programming language" stuff and put all that energy towards the part of my brain that deals with "building stuff" whenever I write code in Rust, because I have a high level of confidence that…

> I'm an incredibly lazy developer and Rust only makes me lazier You can't be that lazy, or you would use a language that doesn't force you to do memory management. > Rust is the only language where I can open something like Notepad without an LSP or highlighting This is a very weird and arbitrary qualifier that seems designed to filter out other languages with type systems.

> force you to do memory management

This is not my experience at all. I never think about memory management when I'm writing Rust, let alone am I "doing it" (active voice).

Your second comment is a very weird sentence that is very difficult for me to grok.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#93

Post by doctorpangloss »

googledocsftw wrote: post #54
doctorpangloss wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate that you’re getting to the crux of the matter instead of downvoting. In our experience elevating the web metrics in Next.js takes the same expertise as doing it in any other framework. Our experience with Vertx and Microsoft’s dotnet web frameworks have been good, but Next.js got us to a fast, featureful, performant website sooner and with more flexibility around requirements. I won’t pass judgement on r…

Ok I will bite. How did you manage to get scripts to defer?

Code that we need later is `async import`-ed.

But for SEO, shouldn't Google be given a 100% pre-rendered, essentially static page? Next.Js plus our CloudFront seems to just support this.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#94

Post by throw10920 »

bsnnkv wrote: post #92
throw10920 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm an incredibly lazy developer and Rust only makes me lazier You can't be that lazy, or you would use a language that doesn't force you to do memory management. > Rust is the only language where I can open something like Notepad without an LSP or highlighting This is a very weird and arbitrary qualifier that seems designed to filter out other languages with type systems.

> force you to do memory management This is not my experience at all. I never think about memory management when I'm writing Rust, let alone am I "doing it" (active voice). Your second comment is a very weird sentence that is very difficult for me to grok.

> I never think about memory management when I'm writing Rust, let alone am I "doing it" (active voice).

Worrying about lifetimes is memory management that is unnecessary with GC languages and directly increases cognitive load.

My second paragraph is pointing out that "where I can open something like Notepad without an LSP or highlighting" is a strange qualifier. Why does it matter if you don't have semantic analysis in your editor? You certainly didn't explain it.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#95

Post by bsnnkv »

chowells wrote: post #81
bsnnkv wrote: post #64

So strange reading all the comments here saying that Rust is not a language for "lazy developers". I'm an incredibly lazy developer and Rust only makes me lazier. I can pretty much turn off the part of my brain that deals with "programming language" stuff and put all that energy towards the part of my brain that deals with "building stuff" whenever I write code in Rust, because I have a high level of confidence that…

Some people are comfortable offloading mental effort to a compiler. Others suffer from anxiety at the suggestion.

I'm the other way around I guess - a lot of anxiety when I'm forced to touch fragile bits written in Ruby, Python and JS at work. Part of it might be the terrible tooling story in each of those language ecosystems as well.

Last week I deployed a Ruby change where a missed comma between two strings in an array did not get picked up by any of the automated tooling or by 3 other team members who code reviewed my change, and ended up cutting 50+ sev2s at 10pm.

AWS folks can probably guess which internal tool I had to touch that requires Ruby.

(I was on call, fun times)

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#96

Post by sublinear »

I guess I'm just "weird" for thinking the laziest and least error prone way to write a web app is in plain javascript?

Any framework is too much extra work to learn and going to eventually get you shot in the foot.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#97

Post by bsnnkv »

throw10920 wrote: post #94
bsnnkv wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> force you to do memory management This is not my experience at all. I never think about memory management when I'm writing Rust, let alone am I "doing it" (active voice). Your second comment is a very weird sentence that is very difficult for me to grok.

> I never think about memory management when I'm writing Rust, let alone am I "doing it" (active voice). Worrying about lifetimes is memory management that is unnecessary with GC languages and directly increases cognitive load. My second paragraph is pointing out that "where I can open something like Notepad without an LSP or highlighting" is a strange qualifier. Why does it matter if you don't have semantic analysis…

> Worrying about lifetimes

Again, not my experience at all. I simply don't think about any of that stuff when I write Rust, all my mental energy can safely go towards working on whatever I'm building.

If you don't believe me, you're welcome to watch the literally hundreds of hours of me live coding in Rust on YouTube.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#98

Post by sodapopcan »

"Right tool for the right job," no?

Learn multiple languages.

The whole "I want to do everything in the language I already know" is why the least interesting--and straight-up pretty terrible albeit very capable--languages are dominating our field.

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#99

Post by djbusby »

htdar wrote: post #66
djbusby wrote: post #50

Servo is in Rust. I want to make an app in Rust that hosts Servo in it with my business logic in maybe SciterJS - like electron but hopefully lighter? Something, just a business software guy who wants something with more control than an webapp and not so heavy like electron.

Tauri? https://tauri.app

Its pretty awesome and almost there. Actually, I'm sure if we could find the time it would be there. (We $DAYJOB)

Re: Rust needs a web framework

#100

Post by CharlieDigital »

troad wrote: post #87
devjab wrote: post #10

> I like to make silly things, and I also like to put in minimal effort for those silly things. I also like to make things in Rust… I think this part is perhaps the silliest part of a very silly article. If you really like to put in a minimal effort then why on earth would you use Rust? If you want efficiency, memory management and a compiled modern language just use Go. Then you won’t even need anything but the stan…

I am a fan of Rust for systems programming, but so many people are using Rust for things that are nothing even remotely close to systems programming. So many projects you see being written (or rewritten) in Rust are projects where I just think 'wait, why can't this just have a GC'? And then you look at the code base, and it's all Arc >s, and you can't help at marvel at this, since that's just GC, so what's the benefi…

    > I think a lot of what people actually like about Rust, to be honest, is that it's essentially an ML language masquerading as a C-like, with a stellar packaging and tooling story.
F# seems like a good option.
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