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Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

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Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#91

Post by gcanyon »

bjourne wrote: post #64
ccppurcell wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents both have fillings in almost every tooth, my sister and I have none. Neither of us did anything particularly special, my parents were quite strict about sugar (for the UK in the 80s/90s) and we brushed our teeth twice a day. I never flossed regularly, though I have started doing it more in the last few years.

Fluoridated drinking water may explain the difference.

Fun fact: I'm visiting Uruguay right now, and they have fluoridated salt here! (it's iodized as well)

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#92

Post by pj808 »

johnyzee wrote: post #63
cubefox wrote: post #60

> We are thus left with a product, Lumina, that cannot guarantee the prevention of future caries "Guarantees" are not strictly needed. What matters most is whether there is a substantial reduction of future caries, not whether it makes you totally immune to it. Say, if Lumina/BCS3-L1 "only" reduces cavities by 50%, it is already half as good (arguably) as a drug which prevented 100%. This would already be large progr…

The tone of the article is for some reason very dismissive and derisive of alternatives to plain dental hygiene. As you point out, if a simple supplement in the form of harmless bacteria could improve caries reduction by even a small amount, it seems it would be a valuable option. There is an existing 'probiotic' that has been around for years and works the same way, and promises the same benefits, as the one describ…

The claim of the headline is also not supported by the evidence shared in the article. As just one example, the article notes that many different strains of bacteria are responsible for caries. This fact doesn't necessarily say anything about the effectiveness of Lantern's treatments - although it might shed light on the mechanisms that make it effe tive (or not).

That's what the clinical trials and studies on the early adopters are for. There's lots of interesting commentary on the early research, such as Scott Alexander's write-up, that are much better than this article.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#93

Post by gcanyon »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #44

Wild, I first read about this twenty+ years ago, maybe thirty. Oragenics rang a bell, near some university in Florida? Also, the New York Times magazine had a piece on the Prospera island in Central America last weekend, was interesting as well. Supposed to have fewer regulations but the previous government is trying to reclaim it. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/28/magazine/prospera-hondura...

Same -- I would have guessed that I read about this in the late '80s.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#94

Post by dsego »

jtc331 wrote: post #76
mishu2 wrote: post #43

It may still take us some time to reach that goal, but the good news is that we have an effective solution available right now: keeping good oral hygiene is known to prevent both caries and gum disease, and takes less than 10 minutes a day for the average person. If you need more information, we recently developed a free website to get you started: https://lifelongsmiles.hk/

My wife seems to be basically immune to cavities; I get them easily. I brush very carefully; she brushes only quickly. Our diets are the same — if anything she probably gets more sugar. We have the same water source. Etc. Clearly there’s a lot more to this than what you’re claiming. Unless you’d propose that all of my current problems are due to conditions while I was child or similar.

I'm the same, I brush and floss regularly, occasionally use chx mouthwash, dental disclosing tables and oral probiotics. She forgets to brush sometimes, eats more sweet. She had only one or two cavities in twenty years we've known each other. I've had two root canals and have fillings regularly. Truth be told, she doesn't drink coffee at all, I drink several cups a day. She also doesn't drink much alcohol, I have one or two beers every week. In addition to bad genetics (both parents smokers and developed gum disease) I attribute this to poor oral hygiene when I was a kid, parents didn't really control my brushing, so ended up with a lot of fillings. In contrast, we brush our kid's teeth every day religiously, almost 5, no cavities whatsoever, and she eats plenty of sweets.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#95

Post by mishu2 »

alphazard wrote: post #90
mishu2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are indeed many factors (genetics, the specifics of the microbiome in your mouth, probably some we don't even understand at the moment) at play, oral hygiene (and diet for caries, but not gum disease) is currently considered by far the most important modifiable risk factor.

Considered by who? Dentists, or scientists? Dentists seem to be about 5-10 years behind the research on this topic. I know of a single practice that has started doing oral microbiome testing. We know that caries are caused by acid eroding the teeth. And we know which bacterial species produce this acid, how quickly they secrete it, and how common they are. The most significant source is Strep. Mutans. Sugar is an inp…

> Dentists seem to be about 5-10 years behind the research on this topic.

Generalizations are usually not helpful, I think it really depends on the dentist. I'm not sure there are proven benefits to oral microbiome testing, except in some very specific cases.

> The most significant cause for caries is S. mutans.

The 'Beyond Streptococcus mutans' section in TFA explains that the situation is much more complex than this; even if it is, good oral hygiene and reduced sugar intake (both in quantity and frequency) are still the best way to reduce the amount of biofilm present on teeth (which is a requirement for caries formation, whether S. mutans is there or not).

> Diet is the most significant way to affect gum disease.

The current clinical treatment guidelines for periodontitis[1,2] only mention that the benefit of weight-reducing diet and lifestyle changes is unclear (for treating periodontitis, obviously), and that oral hygiene is still the most important thing you can do yourself for the prevention, and, once established, to assist in the treatment of the disease.

[1] Infographic: https://www.efp.org/fileadmin/uploads/efp/Photos/Continuing_...

[2] Source article: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jcpe.13290

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#96

Post by mishu2 »

dsego wrote: post #94
jtc331 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife seems to be basically immune to cavities; I get them easily. I brush very carefully; she brushes only quickly. Our diets are the same — if anything she probably gets more sugar. We have the same water source. Etc. Clearly there’s a lot more to this than what you’re claiming. Unless you’d propose that all of my current problems are due to conditions while I was child or similar.

I'm the same, I brush and floss regularly, occasionally use chx mouthwash, dental disclosing tables and oral probiotics. She forgets to brush sometimes, eats more sweet. She had only one or two cavities in twenty years we've known each other. I've had two root canals and have fillings regularly. Truth be told, she doesn't drink coffee at all, I drink several cups a day. She also doesn't drink much alcohol, I have one…

I'm sorry to hear that. Like you correctly mention, genetics play a big role and are unfortunately (currently?) not modifiable, and there is plenty of evidence that a restored tooth is at higher risk of further issues/loss, so prevention is the best thing you can do.

Good job with your daughter! FYI, we are working on expanding the instructions to children, so watch this space ;)

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#97

Post by fwipsy »

mishu2 wrote: post #43

It may still take us some time to reach that goal, but the good news is that we have an effective solution available right now: keeping good oral hygiene is known to prevent both caries and gum disease, and takes less than 10 minutes a day for the average person. If you need more information, we recently developed a free website to get you started: https://lifelongsmiles.hk/

I brush and floss every day but the cost is not trivial. Saving ten minutes EVERY day for everyone who brushes would be a massive, massive success. Not to mention it would improve health for people who can't get into the habit.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#98

Post by connicpu »

bcoates wrote: post #66
zenexer wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the participants could very easily spread it to other people. This wouldn’t just affect them. That’s why the trial was ultimately required to take place under quarantine. It’s not even a question of whether it would spread, but whether it might spread. There’s a reasonable chance that this bacterium would, in fact, spread, and nobody has proven otherwise. The FDA is doing its job here: it’s protecting the mas…

Does the FDA have any actual mandate or expertise to do that, or are they just embracing mission creep?

I think their right to regulate this is similar to their right to tell labs working with smallpox that they have to run a tight ship to prevent leaks.

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#99

Post by throwworhtthrow »

mishu2 wrote: post #58
ttrmw wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno that it's awkwardness so much as the discomfort of watching someone with pretty messed up teeth forcing too-large ID brushes in between them

Thank you all very much for the feedback, it gives me a new perspective on things. We wanted to show a real case, rather than animations, because we thought it would be clearer for our patients; but we are probably desensitized to watching stuff like this. Would you prefer to see a 3D animation instead, or something else?

I watched all the patient videos and found them helpful. There's no substitute for seeing examples with a real mouth.

The interdental brush video is a bit more "intense" than the rest. Can't be helped: you need to show someone with teeth gaps. Perhaps move that one down in the list so newcomers start with a more gentle video?

Re: Reports of the death of dental cavities are greatly exaggerated

#100

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

thowawatp302 wrote: post #26
Grimblewald wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the article. If you have not already, you might rethink consideration of this product.

Th article just confirms my suspicion that the worst thing is I could be out $500

My own dentist (William Drillfill, DDS) was telling me just a few weeks ago that it could be alot worse. The mid-sized boat building industry sector could take a big hit and tank the entire economy. Have some sympathy for the boat builders, how many more layoffs can our country take right now?
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