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Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

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Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#91
post #5

We're lucky to have hard-headed people willing to put up with legal threats and bullying tactics. I'm not sure I'd have the spine for it. It reminds me of when Ben Goldacre was sued [0] which luckily his publisher covered the costs for. [0] https://www.badscience.net/files/The-Doctor-Will-Sue-You-Now...

The problem is being able to sue for something like defamation. At the extreme, like happens in Brazil, innocent people are sent to jail for criticizing politicians.

https://mises.org/mises-wire/rothbard-suits-defamation

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#92
Related. Others?

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They studied dishonesty – Was their work a lie? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37714898 - Sept 2023 (153 comments)

Crowdfunding a defense for scientific research - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37393502 - Sept 2023 (47 comments)

I’m so sorry for psychology’s loss, whatever it is - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37315292 - Aug 2023 (94 comments)

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Is it defamation to point out scientific research fraud? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37152030 - Aug 2023 (13 comments)

Harvard professor Francesca Gino was accused of faking data - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36968670 - Aug 2023 (146 comments)

Fabricated data in research about honesty - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36907829 - July 2023 (46 comments)

Fraudulent data raise questions about superstar honesty researcher (2021) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36726485 - July 2023 (33 comments)

Harvard ethics professor allegedly fabricated multiple studies - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36665247 - July 2023 (215 comments)

Harvard dishonesty expert accused of dishonesty - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36424090 - June 2023 (201 comments)

Data Falsificada (Part 1): “Clusterfake” – Data Colada - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36374255 - June 2023 (7 comments)

Noted study in psychology fails to replicate, crumbles with evidence of fraud - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28264097 - Aug 2021 (102 comments)

A Big Study About Honesty Turns Out to Be Based on Fake Data - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28257860 - Aug 2021 (91 comments)

Evidence of fraud in an influential field experiment about dishonesty - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28210642 - Aug 2021 (51 comments)

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#93
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it is a Nobel prize winner like Jennifer Doudna?

Well the guy who invented lobotomy got one of those. Or the guy who invented microcredit. To not even venture in the peace nobel prizes area, where getting one is probably indicative of being evil.

>Well the guy who invented lobotomy got one of those.

Yeah, and when you see a Nobel prize winner you must be assuming it's a bullshit grifter.

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#94
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it is a Nobel prize winner like Jennifer Doudna?

It's hard to generalize. The whole field of behavioural intelligence has lots of fake/unrepeatable studies. Even Kahneman, who got a Economics Nobel has this issue: https://retractionwatch.com/2017/02/20/placed-much-faith-und...

Yep, it's hard, that's why sometimes it's better not to overgeneralize. But sure, that field is full if unreproducible "research".

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#95
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's scary, really. Having no money for this means you can't afford to fight these criminal crooks. Is this how this works in europe too?

In Europe, the losing party of a lawsuit generally has to pay for the winner's legal expenses ("English rule"). Never had to go to court so I don't know what you do about the expenses in the meanwhile, but at least there's light at the end of the tunnel when someone sues you just for the heck of it.

Europe may be too wide a categorization, I am pretty sure that different countries have different ways to deal with the matter.

My (thankfully very little) experience in Italy is for civil litigations at least (where it is rare that one of the two parties get 100% reason) expenses are usually compensated (i.e. every party pays their own ones), in the more rare case where all expenses are paid by the succumbing party, what is liquidated is not really what has been paid, but rather what the expenses would be along some sort of tariff.

If your solicitor/lawyer is a famous (presumably very good as you won) one, it is likely that the amount you spend is much higher than what the judge condemned the other party to reimburse you.

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#96

While a favorable ruling for the Data Colada defendants seemed incredibly likely in the end (and of course being dismissed pre-trial before discovery is a good thing). But it still took over a year, and consisted of several pre-trial hearings with multiple back and forths between them. If I ctrl-f https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.259... I see Pyle (their lawyer) listed 11 times. All the motion…

Have you seen Harvard's endowment?

I'm sure there's counterdamages and he can take a percentage

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#97

While a favorable ruling for the Data Colada defendants seemed incredibly likely in the end (and of course being dismissed pre-trial before discovery is a good thing). But it still took over a year, and consisted of several pre-trial hearings with multiple back and forths between them. If I ctrl-f https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.259... I see Pyle (their lawyer) listed 11 times. All the motion…

It's not just the money. When you're the target of litigation, particularly irregular specialist domain stuff that it can really take over your life.

You might recover some of your legal costs from your opponent, but the disruption to your life will not be compensated.

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#98

In my opinion, defamation law is not fit for purpose, it's far too easy for rich people with axes to grind to sue their accusers in an attempt to stifle speech by putting a price on their words. Anti-SLAPP motions are supposed to fix this by allowing fee shifting, but they only exist in a handful of states, and I'm still not 100% sure how effective that alone can be at restoring freedom of speech[0]. Until such time…

Unfortunately for malicious litigants their whole goal is to damage you with the process or to use the threat of doing so to coerce you. They'll use defamation law when its the path of least resistance but if that's off the table they'll just cook up some other claim.

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#99
post #91
post #5

We're lucky to have hard-headed people willing to put up with legal threats and bullying tactics. I'm not sure I'd have the spine for it. It reminds me of when Ben Goldacre was sued [0] which luckily his publisher covered the costs for. [0] https://www.badscience.net/files/The-Doctor-Will-Sue-You-Now...

The problem is being able to sue for something like defamation. At the extreme, like happens in Brazil, innocent people are sent to jail for criticizing politicians. https://mises.org/mises-wire/rothbard-suits-defamation

That is true, but this is so much worse.

1) this is a college

2) it was about research, fundamental to the mission of higher education

3) it was fraud, not error

4) It was HARVARD, exalted bastion of elite colleges, the most prestigious university in the US

I get Harvard is always more about influence and an insiders club rather than any real academic work, but still ... So many heads should roll over this.

Re: Data sleuths who spotted research misconduct cleared of defamation

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's scary, really. Having no money for this means you can't afford to fight these criminal crooks. Is this how this works in europe too?

No, where I live (Germany) you usually have a legal insurance to cover this. The costs are around 30€ per month in my case.

Corporate liability insurance in the US, which is also a very common thing to get, often does not cover your defense against "intentional torts" such as defamation or fraud. It usually covers things like slips and falls, product-related liability, etc. I would be surprised if your German version covers defamation.
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