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The Future of European Competitiveness

commission.europa.eu

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Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#91

Post by tormeh »

magicalhippo wrote: post #42

We make B2B software that we sell in several EU countries, which interfaces with official systems. Even though all countries are subject to the same EU rules, and follow the same underlying technical model, each country has its own laws and regulations, and separate implementations. So even though our software does "the same thing" in each country, it's so different that a lot of code is per-country, over 50%. So it'…

> However, that's the easy bit, it just takes more development time.

Easy, yes, but expensive for the business and its customers. It's a silly way to do things, but it's hard to see an alternative without member states giving up massive amounts of sovereignty.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#92

Post by tormeh »

eastbound wrote: post #47
htk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the mindset that created the problems highlighted by the report.

Indeed. While I’ve always counted water drop by drop, washed my hands with a tiny strip of water, I’m traveling through the Russian/Middle East and there is no such water shortage visible. Pipes leak everywhere on the street, and there is still tap water everywhere, unlike Europe where I lack pressure to wash in the mornings. Petrol is 1.10€ a liter here, far from the 2.00€ in France. Going 500km is easy, in France i…

Pretty much. It's all feel-good stuff. We cannot stop global warming unless the entire globe plays along. Individual action is completely nonsensical. Even action on a national level (in, say, Germany) hardly moves the needle and is mostly feel-good. We should focus on adaption strategies and on making renewables more appealing for developing countries. Happily, solar has incredible momentum on the latter front.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#93

Post by Aerroon »

lsy wrote: post #14

I suspect it is actually a great strength of Europe that the attitude towards regulation (to put it perhaps overly simplistically, favoring more intangible rights over economic growth) precludes hype and bubble phenomena like the mentioned "creation of large, integrated data sets" or "young, innovative tech companies". This means that business, at least to some extent, is forced to address real-world issues and work…

>This means that business, at least to some extent, is forced to address real-world issues and work at a more local level. What is seen as "innovative" in the US is typically merely rent-seeking or parasitic on the broader society, and it seems likely that slower, more measured growth is consistent with better outcomes overall.

He says, on an American website, that he accessed through a browser made by an American company, that's running on an operating system made by an American company (or maybe Linux! Although even Torvalds moved to the US), running on a device... Well, it gets complicated. All the relevant options and combinations are non-European though.

ASML is like the only relevance of Europe here and they got started because of the US.

Why is there no European Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Google, Apple, Samsung, Amazon, Tencent, Sony etc? All the stuff is foreign, which means that we're constantly following foreign rules based on their culture. And slowly they have more become our rules and culture, because there were no real European alternatives.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#94

Post by surgical_fire »

throwaway48540 wrote: post #43
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life expectancy? Happiness? https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/02/25/happines...

Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers. "Yeah I'm so happy I have a job paying 500 USD per month, and I am so happy my 1.5-room flat rent is just 350" is a very common thing to hear where I live. The tax rate is 35% btw. Also, try to find newer statistics at least. 2016 was around the local maxima, everything went to shit - very noticeably - during and after covid.

I do. Most people I talk to are doing fine. Nothing close to what you described.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#95

Post by Aerroon »

wiz21c wrote: post #55
throwaway48540 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't related at all. Please don't try to sell de-growth as some green strategy, you're only going to antagonize people. De-growth will most likely lead to more CO2 emitted per person. Only high technology can change this.

I understand growth as more economic activity and there I fail to see how they are disconnected. I mean, the more you move stuff around, the more you produce AI generated images, the more you consume energy ??? Of course we could as well produce energy without carbon emissions but we are not there yet. I'd be happy (honestly) to hear an example.

Wouldn't AI generated images save energy?

AI generates a 10 images in 10 minutes. You pick one. A human would take hours to create one of them.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#96

Post by throwaway48540 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #94
throwaway48540 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers. "Yeah I'm so happy I have a job paying 500 USD per month, and I am so happy my 1.5-room flat rent is just 350" is a very common thing to hear where I live. The tax rate is 35% btw. Also, try to find newer statistics at least. 2016 was around the local maxima, everything went to shit - very noticeably - during and after covid.

I do. Most people I talk to are doing fine. Nothing close to what you described.

Define "doing fine", please. These people think they are doing fine. If you think this is not usual, why is 15% of my state population in irrecoverable debt?

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#97

Post by hintymad »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #24
frankjr wrote: post #5

> Europe largely missed out on the digital revolution led by the internet and the productivity gains it brought: in fact, the productivity gap between the EU and the US is largely explained by the tech sector. The EU is weak in the emerging technologies that will drive future growth. Only four of the world’s top 50 tech companies are European. > Europe is stuck in a static industrial structure with few new companies…

> Probably not what the self patting EU clowns were expecting. I don't know who you have in mind with "self petting EU clowns" but in general people are very aware of what's going on. A lot of companies have been giving this feedback for a long time.

> in general people are very aware of what's going on.

But what can people do? It seems to me that the EU government can do whatever they like. Or is it like what people say about the US politics: the politicians do what voters want, and it's just that a minority of people don't like EU's policies?

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#98

Post by _w1tm »

tormeh wrote: post #91
magicalhippo wrote: post #42

We make B2B software that we sell in several EU countries, which interfaces with official systems. Even though all countries are subject to the same EU rules, and follow the same underlying technical model, each country has its own laws and regulations, and separate implementations. So even though our software does "the same thing" in each country, it's so different that a lot of code is per-country, over 50%. So it'…

> However, that's the easy bit, it just takes more development time. Easy, yes, but expensive for the business and its customers. It's a silly way to do things, but it's hard to see an alternative without member states giving up massive amounts of sovereignty.

> without member states giving up massive amounts of sovereignty.

Why is this a bad thing?

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#99

Post by throwaway48540 »

Aerroon wrote: post #95
wiz21c wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand growth as more economic activity and there I fail to see how they are disconnected. I mean, the more you move stuff around, the more you produce AI generated images, the more you consume energy ??? Of course we could as well produce energy without carbon emissions but we are not there yet. I'd be happy (honestly) to hear an example.

Wouldn't AI generated images save energy? AI generates a 10 images in 10 minutes. You pick one. A human would take hours to create one of them.

Ah yeah, I have a friend who's working on an online grocery store. He generated all his images - instead of driving hundreds of kilometers for weeks to take all the pictures. Definitely a huge win for the environmentally friendly.
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