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A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

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Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#91

Post by tfhag »

khazhoux wrote: post #75
yarg wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You are making a general point, but does it apply specifically? Here's the Python Code of Conduct for communication on official Python forums, and comm+behavior at official Python events: https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct What specific items do you disagree with? * The top section "Our Community" is just general stuff like "be respectful." Is that a problem? * The list of "Inappropriate Behavior"…

The problem is selective enforcement and different interpretation of the listed terms. The Steering Council itself has been guilty of at least (verbal) harassment, insults, put downs and sarcastic jokes.

But they are safe.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#92

Post by BadHumans »

lovecg wrote: post #62
EvanAnderson wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an outsider who only knows Guido van Rossum by way of interviews his writing. Assuming your quote is what the original text said (I don't disbelieve you-- but nobody can see it to confirm) why would this have violated community standards? Is there some rule about not mentioning "un-persons" or something? It's very confusing. Edit: Answering my own question. There appears to be a kerfuffle afoot. Apparently the St…

Wow, just wow. Reading all these makes me really worried about supporting anything built on Python long term. This creates an impression of a self-destructing dying community.

This is silly. The Python Foundation could die tonight and people will still build in Python for years to come because believe it or not, most people do not know or care about the happenings of these organizations.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#93

Post by naniwaduni »

OutOfHere wrote: post #31

[flagged]

Ironically, "dumb" approval voting, by virtue of using additive aggregation, extracts more information from ballots than ranked choice. It's a reduced-resolution form of continuous range voting, just like discrete range voting (approval voting is literally {0,1} range voting!), that approximates it arbitrarily closely with sufficiently many voters.

(Approval voting also literally expresses more information about small numbers of candidates: there are 7 distinct approval ballots of three candidates, and only 6 distinct ranked ballots. In particular, it expresses more raw information about preferences between the top 2-3 candidates, which are the most important rankings in a single-victor election!)

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#94

Post by krick »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #83
krick wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kinda nuts, but kinda absolutely in line with all trends of the last 5 years. I remember similar shit happening in Linux community (the shit won, naturally). But, anyway, who is the "Steering Council" and how come they have more influence than the 2 people who basically created python the language and python the community?

When Guido stopped being the sole leader (BDFL) he was replaced by the steering council which is elected and has the purpose of doing the following (Defined in PEP 13 which is the current governance model of Python. Right now Guido is a core developer at this time. See https://peps.python.org/pep-0013/#the-steering-council

That's pretty obvious. The question was, who are these people, specifically, and why they were chosen and given that much power. I mean, I can see the names, but while I don't have to be told who Tim Peters or Guido van Rossum are, I have no clue who these guys are and what their actual contributions are.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#95

Post by the_real_cher »

khazhoux wrote: post #21
mc32 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the hell, has everyone caught and gone gung-ho on censorship? What the actual f*** is this? How in the hell do you have the balls or ovaries to ban the creator --for something so inane. It's like a highscool supe who gets no respect and will at every chance show you the little power she has in such a classless way. So utterly petty defying belief. I hope those dweebs get voted out pronto. That's an absurd abuse…

> gung-ho on censorship? What the actual f** is this? Unintenti**l irony

there's a difference between being polite and having your post removed entirely

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#96

Post by userbinator »

potsandpans wrote: post #44

This kind of drama seems to exist very specifically to programming language design and implementation. Probably has something to do with the codified formal structures necessary for various committees/ decision making groups. But it's interesting. This kind of stuff happens in ECMA, Rust, Python and a few others. Go seems to have escaped. Maybe because it's a corporate owned Lang? Similarly no drama in the Typescript…

No drama in C that I can remember either, because there is not much of a "community" in the first place.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#97

Post by tourmalinetaco »

gtirloni wrote: post #77
lovecg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, just wow. Reading all these makes me really worried about supporting anything built on Python long term. This creates an impression of a self-destructing dying community.

[flagged]

No, it is pure 1984. Censorious nonsense spearheaded by those who are held unaccountable for their actions. The fact that this came about on a topic of voting systems is even more ironic.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#98

Post by naniwaduni »

PaulHoule wrote: post #85
mindslight wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's painful seeing all the enthusiasm IRV gets. I've come to the conclusion it's how people think they want to be able to express support for third party candidates due to their frustration with the current system, but not actually seeing down the line to what happens when non-duopoly options gain some popularity. Basically it's still hopelessly wed to the two party model after the less-popular third parties a…

I think the worst thing about U.S. national elections is that the winner of the electoral vote might not be the winner of the popular vote. Whether or not that is right is beside the point but anything complicated about the results that make them hard to understand will subtract legitimacy. I’d go so far to say that the system will not survive if we got several elections where one particular party consistently loses…

> The last thing we need, seen through that lens, is a complex system where people don’t understand the results or how exactly their vote will affect those results.

And this is one of the best features of approval voting compared to any form of ranked choice!

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#99

Post by tourmalinetaco »

the_real_cher wrote: post #95
khazhoux wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gung-ho on censorship? What the actual f** is this? Unintenti**l irony

there's a difference between being polite and having your post removed entirely

Of course, but it still elicits a reasonable chuckle.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#100

Post by bgentry »

zellyn wrote: post #84
potsandpans wrote: post #44

This kind of drama seems to exist very specifically to programming language design and implementation. Probably has something to do with the codified formal structures necessary for various committees/ decision making groups. But it's interesting. This kind of stuff happens in ECMA, Rust, Python and a few others. Go seems to have escaped. Maybe because it's a corporate owned Lang? Similarly no drama in the Typescript…

A prominent and influential Go developer was effectively banned for life from Go community forums some years back. I honestly don't remember enough of the details to have a clear opinion on whether it was ultimately warranted, but I still feel sad that it happened when I think about it from time to time. The fact that it's legitimately unwise to discuss and decide CoC violations in public can make the resulting disap…

I actually just re-read that whole thread earlier this evening for unrelated reasons: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31508000

In short, the Go module proxy causes an excessive traffic volume on git VCS sources with frequent clones of unchanged repos. Regardless of whether or not the developer is/was always reasonable in how he discussed this, he was absolutely right about this being a hostile behavior from the official Go proxy that is the result of bad/insufficient engineering. The team's suggestions to simply stop refreshing his one domain were also not sufficient given that the problem clearly impacts all Go module VCS hosts.

The developer also appeared to be banned in a way that violated the Go CoC's own provisions around fair notice and a proper hearing, which is super disappointing to see.

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