Julian's situation seems very weird to me, given the stories about how secretive he was, how he kept in hiding, etc. At the same time, he was very clearly and publicly the face of wikileaks. Why did he not simply remain anonymous? All that Wikileaks has done could be done without having a public figurehead, right? Being public seems to have been the tactical error. (or was he trying to be anonymous, but got outed at…
Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
91–100 of 114 posts
Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's not even charged in Sweden. It's fairly obvious the Swedish angle is being used to get him in a country from which he can be extradicted to the US.
Every time I hear this argument I don't know if to laugh or to cry. Assange himself pointed out that it is much easier to be extradited to the US from the UK (which extradites to the US almost anyone for pretty much any reason) than from Sweden (that as far as i know very rarely if ever extradites to the US). If he was really afraid of being extradited to the US, he would want to be in Sweden rather than in the UK .
The UK can send him to Sweden, saying they complied with EU rules. The UK can then relax, and not deal with the wrath of Australia being pissed off - an ex-commonwealth country.
Once he's convicted in Sweden, he can serve the two-months or whatever. Then he can be extradited to the US. Sweden can relax - he's a convicted sex offender now, extradited from the UK. It's harder for him to get legal support in Sweden - he's English-speaking, as are the majority of his supporters.
And the US gets their man. No government wants some renegade out there leaking their secrets.
The UK and US will obviously have discussed his extradition. They've agreed to try the Swedish route first. It doesn't have a political cost for the UK government.
Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US would be happy to volunteer a few if it's a question of manpower. Britain would probably commit their own just to avoid that kind of situation. It just doesn't sound like a good use of the officers' time. They've had the guy detained without charge for 500-odd days. Facing some international criticism and generally looking like hypocrites whenever they want to criticize some other country for having political…
> The US would be happy to volunteer a few if it's a question of manpower How many times? This is nothing to do with the US. This is a UK-Sweden extradition of an Australian citizen. If the US DoJ ever gets off its ass and decides to press charges against Julian Assange (they've been sitting on their hands for a couple of years now) it's not gonna do it via some subtle cloak-and-dagger six-country shuffle, it'll just…
Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not. Two women have accused Assange of rape. They…
It depresses me that people are commenting on the issue without actually knowing what the investigation in Sweden is about. I might be wrong but there is a slight difference between not wearing a condom and rape. I don't care if Sweden is calling consensual sex without condom rape. In Assange's case, he allegedly sabotaged his condom with one woman and allegedly refused to wear a condom with another one but he did no…
Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
US imprisonment has very little to do with this. The man faces rape and sexual assault charges, one of the most serious offenses a person can commit. Though I back his politics 100% and consider him a hero to be remembered, he has every responsibility to face his accusers in a fair trial. Shame on Sweden if they hand him over to the Americans after his trial has concluded.
Really? You back his politics one hundred percent? "Julian was very reluctant to delete those names, to redact them." David Leigh of the Guardian newspaper tells FRONTLINE of meetings he attended with Assange in the run-up to publication of the war logs. "And we said: 'Julian, we've got to do something about these redactions. We really have got to.' And he said: 'These people were collaborators, informants. They dese…
The Guardian and David Leigh in particular do seem to have issues with Assange. Personally I wouldn't automatically believe something to be true just because it was in The Guardian.
[1] "Gives Julian Assange no right to reply libelous statements such as "Afghan informers deserve to die". Nick Davies was not present at the conversation described, and John Goertz and Holger Stark from Der Spiegel can attest that they have no notes or recollection of Julian Assange saying this and would have recalled if he had claimed such a position." http://www.wikileaks.org/Guardian-s-WikiLeaks-Secrets-and.ht...
Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
#96Seems to me Assange isn't so much afraid of being extradited to US (there is a truckload of ways to fight that if it ever comes to that) but of actually being convicted in Sweden. The Piratebay trials have shown how corrupted the Swedish justice system can be, with both police, prosecution and judges having proven private connections with the copyright industry (which in itself is not only organized and financed by t…
None of us know what the US is doing, if anything. We do know, by their own admission, that they began an aggressive investigation into whether or not Assange could be charged. We also know that everyone known associated with Wikileaks had their twitter and other social accounts subpoenaed. Manning's lawyer also indicated that the DoJ discussed the possibility of a plea bargain. As recently as a few weeks ago, US officials said they are waiting to see how the UK case plays out before charging him.
It is more probable than not that after such statements and aggressive investigations, that the US will charge him. It is more probable than not that the reason they have not yet done so, is because it's better for them to let this case finish, as they said.
Assange is not under the impression that he is immune to these inevitable charges and extradition in any of the countries involved. He has resigned to the fact that he is likely to face the US DoJ, and an extradition request, one way or another.
Assange believes that he has a tactical advantage in this case if this does not happen in Sweden. I don't know all of the reasons for this, but this is not surprising, and he has obviously been advised to exhaust this route by his legal counsel. It's safe to assume that this has been their decision, not his.
This is not a conspiracy theory, this is just how court cases work. Even in the US, it is common to fight for the most favorable jurisdiction. The presence of an extradition treaty in both countries does not mean that an extradition request is equally difficult to fight in both countries. This could change depending on laws in a specific country, or even be influenced by public perception or even corruption.
When is the last time someone was held for a year and a half in an international dispute to be questioned about a broken or missing condom incident? That makes the least sense.
Edit: It's worth noting that according to the hacked stratfor emails, the US already has a sealed indictment for him:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/28/1069018/-Leaked-Str...
Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason the US is commonly brought into this is because of misunderstanding of the circumstances and general suspicion. First off, sexual assault and rape laws are very different in Sweden, and the crimes he has allegedly committed wouldn't be translated as assault or rape in most countries. Though that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't do something bad to someone that requires legal recourse; what currently stan…
Furthermore, Assange specifically asked the prosecutors office if we was free to leave the country and they said yes.
It's not a double jeopardy situation.
Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
And now they would like him back to ask some more questions. Assange cannot have his cake and eat it. It is somewhat hypocritical for Assange to seek asylum on the grounds of human rights whilst denying the women who are accusing him of obtaining due process through the law (most countries agree that due process is in itself a fundamental right).
Assange hasn't denied Sweden the right to question him, for example, over the phone - they have refused to do so. Why must he be on Swedish soil to answer some questions? Everything about these allegations are clumsy. While we may never know what has transpired, it should be a wake up call to the legal system - you can't just push the regular processes aside and treat a case exceptionally because the suspect is somew…
Point me to any country in the world where a telephone interview of a suspect or person of interest in a crime is an acceptable totality of due process or investigation.
Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Populist" is generally either neutral or positive in American politics. But most often I hear it used to describe a political strategy, going directly for the masses instead of the upper echelons of power.
I would disagree, and say it's usually negative -- the idea that you win short-term approval for a dubious policy by appealing to the masses who are ignorant of the true consequences, as opposed to appealing to the elites who would presumably understand that the thing's a bad idea. For example, promising to cut the gasoline tax would be a very populist tactic -- people think "I pay less for gas, that's great!", where…
It's not as you say that "as opposed to appealing to the elites who would presumably understand that the thing's a bad idea". The elites tend to consider something as a bad idea, when that somethings affects their interests. A populist policy, usually does not benefit the elites, au contraire, it usually affects them negatively, by moving benefits from them to the masses. (Also, in favor of a political gain, like raising the approval ratings).
I'll give you a practical and real example: here in Argentina, the vast majority of the agricultural production is in hands of about 2000 elite families, and managed by planting pools (they have around 85% of the productive fields, and only 15% is in hands of small farm-owners). One common practice for those elites historically has been to export the production, but making the transaction outside the country, so they wouldn't pay taxes here. And then, leave their gains in foreign banks (Switzerland, Luxembourg, Uruguay). Then, after our crisis in 2001, the government crated a grain exports tax. Around the 2006/2008, soybean prices skyrocketed[1]. The government wanted to modify the tax, so it would have a sliding-scale taxation system, that would make that the more expensive the international price of a product, the less impact would have in the internal price [2]. It had two objectives. The first, was to avoid having exorbitant food prices inside the country, that would make lots of products inaccessible to large segments of the population (mostly meat). And the second one was to allow the government to get more money from the soybean exports (so they could use that money to finance the industrial sector). Even when the agricultural elites would still have the highest benefits of their entire history, they didn't want the government taking part of those. This bill was seen as a populist measure by the agricultural elites, who forced a lockout that lasted more than four months. Mass media and mainly Clarin, the largest media conglomerate of Argentina, who until then was a governments ally, aligned to those elites interests, and started a heavy campaign against the government (marking the beginning of a war that still lasts).
I'm not referring to any specific government here, but the main problem, I think while seeing it from the outside, is that US politics has only two options: Conservative-Right and Liberal-Right. So, when you see a foreign center or center-left government implementing policies like progressive taxation (as in my previous example), mixed economy or the state regulating the economy, your media tends to jump shelling "populist! populist!". So, even when "populism" is usually used as a pejorative term, it shouldn't be. It should be used for a government who tries to fight for their lower classes against the elites. The term that should be used instead, (and the one you are referring, I believe) is demagogy: "a political leader in a democracy who appeals to the emotions, prejudices, and ignorance of the poorer and less-educated classes in order to gain power" [3].
[1] http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=soybeans...
[2] http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paro_agropecuario_patronal_en_A... (in spanish, sorry)
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue
PS: I also follow politics a lot, my parents where politically active, but they've always let me choose my own believes.
Re: Julian Assange Seeks Asylum In Ecuador Embassy
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depresses me that people are trying to make comparisons between a copyright infringement case and a rape accusation. Copyright infringement and rape are rather different. This should be obvious. I really don't know where to begin there - I know this community is male dominated, but rape is a incredibly serious crime. Piracy may well be a 'victimless crime'. Rape is not. Two women have accused Assange of rape. They…
It depresses me that people are commenting on the issue without actually knowing what the investigation in Sweden is about. I might be wrong but there is a slight difference between not wearing a condom and rape. I don't care if Sweden is calling consensual sex without condom rape. In Assange's case, he allegedly sabotaged his condom with one woman and allegedly refused to wear a condom with another one but he did no…
It's not called rape in Sweden either, it is sexual misconduct. It is a crime. Even in countries where it is not a crime, it is still a terrible thing to do.
I can support WikiLeaks and also think he did these things, just like I can admire Hans Reiser's file systems. These acts are the product of thinking your desires are important enough to disregard someone else's rights to control their own body. That does not even seem out of character for Assange.