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BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

electriccarsreport.com

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Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#91

Post by marcosdumay »

okr wrote: post #70
epistasis wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Tesla's execution has been really terrible. There's some really good tech inside their cars, but the direction of which cars to make, when, and the investments in non-car tech, the over-promising of "Full Self Driving," etc. All huge detractors. There's also the CEO, who has a huge public profile, deciding to become extremely political, which smart CEOs usually avoid doing because it has little potential to help…

Was it not the mission of Tesla to make electrical cars an alternative to cars running on petrol? To me this was achieved. Bmw or Tesla, i do not care about that too much. But we have an alternative. Great! And politics, well, only for people who do not agree with him it is an issue. But that's normal in politics, is it not?

> But that's normal in politics, is it not?

Excluding a part of the population for no practical reason at all is bad business. But when the politics becomes extremist, that share becomes huge, and it becomes disastrous business.

Some people are motivated enough to lose business for their principles. But the guy's principles is "big business is right"... I'm not sure what he wants to achieve.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#92

Post by bdcravens »

declan_roberts wrote: post #76
two_handfuls wrote: post #22

The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.

Yes that's what we're told, without evidence of any kind.

People are using it as a buying criteria. (I cancelled a Model 3 order and went with a Kia EV6 instead) That said, confirmation bias is a real thing. There are those who are convinced Bed Bath and Beyond went under because they stopped selling My Pillow.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#93

Post by leesec »

goodluckchuck wrote: post #54
leesec wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.

And a technical sense yes but the only new model they’ve released recently is the cyber truck. Otherwise their sedans and crossovers outwardly appear to be basically the same thing they were selling in 2012. Meanwhile, BMW has a fleet of eight different electric vehicles, with more modern styling, leather, and just the ability to differentiate. Of course, Tesla is well into the black on their models whereas I doubt t…

More models is worse. Anyways theres two mass market cars, one got a refresh recently the other next year

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#94

Post by amluto »

leesec wrote: post #40
arcbyte wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear people say this bit then I see those same people go and buy Teslas anyway. The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time.

>The real reason Tesla is suffering is because they've not delivered on innovation, quality, or price in a long time. Haha what. Price has dropped, quality increased, their self driving tech recently had a step change in functionality. I don't really think Tesla is suffering but I think most of these narratives are in peoples heads and don't reflect reality.

I’m personally unconvinced. I test drove some current models a few days ago. Some observations:

1. They have cut costs (or adjusted style?) in highly dubious ways. The forward/reverse selector is gone in most new models, replaced by a swipe zone on the touchscreen that is only present some of the time. The 3 and Y require looking far from the road to see whether you’re signaling left or right — coupled with the turn signal stalk not physically staying in place when signaling, there is no good way to tell the current state of the car.

2. Self driving has taken a step change, IMO into the uncanny valley. A couple years ago, FSD was bad and could maybe go a block or two between failures. Now it can go multiple miles before it screws up dramatically. This seems quite dangerous — it’s hard to be ready to rescue the car when you don’t expect it to mess up.

My overall impression was that (a) new Teslas felt like video games, not cars and (b) the older models, circa 2020, with new software seem genuinely superior to current models.

I have an old Tesla that I like quite a lot. Even notwithstanding Elon’s behavior, I do not want a new Tesla.

P.S. has anyone seriously contemplated the way that water drains from the Cybertruck hood? If they copy that design to other models, I can only imagine they will have huge upcoming warranty/rework/lemon law costs.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#95

Post by throwadobe »

okr wrote: post #70
epistasis wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Tesla's execution has been really terrible. There's some really good tech inside their cars, but the direction of which cars to make, when, and the investments in non-car tech, the over-promising of "Full Self Driving," etc. All huge detractors. There's also the CEO, who has a huge public profile, deciding to become extremely political, which smart CEOs usually avoid doing because it has little potential to help…

Was it not the mission of Tesla to make electrical cars an alternative to cars running on petrol? To me this was achieved. Bmw or Tesla, i do not care about that too much. But we have an alternative. Great! And politics, well, only for people who do not agree with him it is an issue. But that's normal in politics, is it not?

The mission of Tesla is to maximize value to its shareholders

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#96

Post by jfengel »

netsharc wrote: post #68
jcranmer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a consequence of Elon's strong support. What strong support? I recall that Elon publicly announced he was going to do a massive contribution to Trump's campaign fund, and then he announced like two days later that he wasn't going to do it.

[flagged]

He's extremely constrained in what he can donate directly to the campaign. Direct donations are limited to something like $4000. These donations are closely monitored.

If you want to spend millions you have to give it to a super PAC. The difference is that the super PAC cannot coordinate directly with the campaign.

That part is not super closely monitored, and the fig leaf of separation is nanometers thick.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#97

Post by linotype »

darkteflon wrote: post #87
SllX wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve been in the BEV market for a bit. Not long after the first Tesla Model S was released, BMW released the i3. That one’s since been discontinued but they have at least 8 other BMW i models on the market.

The i3 was such a great city car, well ahead of its time. Such a shame that they have apparently abandoned the EV design ethos embodied in that car (and that car alone) in favour of bloated luxo-barges. Tell me that your EV strategy is about brand greenwashing without telling me it’s about brand greenwashing. They seem to be really focused on chasing the Boomer demographic. I’m a happy former customer (twice over) bu…

Many (not all, obviously) boomers will never buy an EV because of identity politics in the midwestern United States. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is true elsewhere as well.

Why they’re not pumping out $25k 250 mile range city cars for millenials and gen z is a mystery to me.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#98

Post by bdcravens »

electronbeam wrote: post #2

Maybe I’m in a bubble, but I didn’t even notice BMW had EVs

Unlike other brands, their EVs don't look much different than their ICE cars (though their earliest attempts, like the i3, were definitely nothing like what they sold). I'm pretty sure this is intentional; they're trying to replicate the BMW experience, and make it less about the drivetrain.

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#99

Post by [deleted] »

jackedEngineer wrote: post #88

I did some digging.The title is misleading - YTD Tesla is way ahead - https://imgur.com/56eG7CN Actual Numbers - BMW registration for the month of July 2024 were up by 300~ cars. Original Source - https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/bmw-... Quoting this comment - streptomycin- Yes https://i.imgur.com/ZNv1AyD.jpg Although BMW is making some nice EVs and they are selling more than they used to, the…

[deleted]

Re: BMW Overtakes Tesla in European EV Sales for First Time

#100

Post by pornel »

root_axis wrote: post #47
two_handfuls wrote: post #22

The Tesla brand has suffered enormously due to the actions of its owner.

I think you're right, but I'm not so sure it's actually impacting sales to a large degree. For most people a 50k car is a huge investment that won't hinge on whether or not you agree with the CEO's politics.

An expensive car is also a status symbol. But when the brand is inseparable from Elon's shitposting, it's not something to brag about any more.
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