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No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

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Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#91

Post by gregjor »

cj wrote: post #5

At a certain point it just doesn't make sense to over-optimize for productivity, when the sacrifice (being pleasant & accessible to coworkers) isn't worth the gain (more focus time coding).

Agree, especially when no one writing code, or managing anything, has a meaningful measure of their "productivity," or how removing or changing variables might "optimize" it. People talk about optimizing their productivity as if they had a meter on their desk showing a number, but it just comes down to subjective experience and mood.

People who act like their time has so much value they can ignore and talk down to their co-workers end up with no professional contacts worth anything when they get laid off. "I had my head down coding, I didn't have time to socialize or make friends." Optimal for an hour, maybe, but a losing strategy in the long game.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#92

Post by drawkward »

throwaway346434 wrote: post #52
daghamm wrote: post #33

This may sound reasonable, but the world is not black and white. If we turn every quick question into a complete meeting with agenda and whatnot, the organisation will become extremly bureaucratic. And at some point people will start making guesses instead of reaching out to experts because it is just too much work. So in my opinion, the author is a little bit selfish too. The company cannot 100% align with what best…

Yeah. Nah. 1) are your goals aligned with the ultimate success factors of the company? Probably. 2) are the people who want to stop you from doing your job aligned? Probably not. Ask yourself if people who "just want a minute" would go stick their arm in an industrial metal press, willingly. Don't they want to make a good impression? Or would this be a horrible act of self harm that is completely disruptive?

Neither 1 nor 2 are obvious. They sound more like ego to me.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#93

Post by mewpmewp2 »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #90
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is all of those acts take you out of flow state. I don't want and I can't randomly brainstorm when I am deep into coding. Even if I have to go take a quick water I would try to do it as quick as possible to continue with the problem I am focused on and I couldn't pay attention to the random conversation or brainstorming at a cooler.

Maybe "flow state" is not the most important thing?

To whom? For my sanity and productivity that's the most important at least.

I only enjoy working when I am in that flow state captured by the problem without having to worry about interruptions.

This is when I provide most actual value and also get most enjoyment out of work myself.

Everything that takes me out of it feels like annoying and frustrating interruptions. And usually I have to then try to not show my frustration and act like I am happy to do small talk or whatever, so I wouldn't seem rude.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#94

Post by prepend »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #88
rethab wrote: post #29

We cannot forget that we also loose something with working remotely (say more than 75% of the time) and that is the occasional bumping into each other at the water cooler or in the morning when coming in. These are situations you can artificially create by scheduling calls to socialize etc, but that is still not comparable with being in an actual office. By categorically saying no to quick calls, you're isolating you…

The problem is all of those acts take you out of flow state. I don't want and I can't randomly brainstorm when I am deep into coding. Even if I have to go take a quick water I would try to do it as quick as possible to continue with the problem I am focused on and I couldn't pay attention to the random conversation or brainstorming at a cooler.

Flow state is really powerful, but it’s not constant. I don’t want to be in flow for 40 hours per week. And to tell the truth if I get a few hours of flow a week, I’m lucky.

So I don’t want to shut the door on any interactions in the unlikely chance that it interrupts me in my optimal state.

What I like to do is block off “deep work” in my calendar a few times a week. Then people can think about if they want to interrupt.

This has let me look at these “quick call” or “hi” messages as just part of being human and having a pleasant team where people are happy to interact rather than dings to maximum team productivity.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#95

Post by cdrini »

ctm92 wrote: post #44
rethab wrote: post #29

We cannot forget that we also loose something with working remotely (say more than 75% of the time) and that is the occasional bumping into each other at the water cooler or in the morning when coming in. These are situations you can artificially create by scheduling calls to socialize etc, but that is still not comparable with being in an actual office. By categorically saying no to quick calls, you're isolating you…

There's no problem with socializing, but this can also be a special appointment where everyone is free to join and can talk about stuff that is not related so a specific issue. We do a weekly fixed appointment where we gather together and smalltalk about whatever is on our minds.

I've had trouble implementing this in the past. We have biweekly social calls with my team, but a lot of people don't take part! And even when they do, when we have the full team (~12 ppl), usually maybe like 3-4 people dominate the convo and it's not super satisfying.

Have you found any tricks/ideas from the implementation at your org that has made it more successful for you?

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#96

Post by prepend »

LunaSea wrote: post #53
rethab wrote: post #29

We cannot forget that we also loose something with working remotely (say more than 75% of the time) and that is the occasional bumping into each other at the water cooler or in the morning when coming in. These are situations you can artificially create by scheduling calls to socialize etc, but that is still not comparable with being in an actual office. By categorically saying no to quick calls, you're isolating you…

In my experience forced online water cooler talk has never worked and was always incredibly awkward and boring.

Forced is horrible. But consensual is great.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#97

Post by refurb »

LunaSea wrote: post #53
rethab wrote: post #29

We cannot forget that we also loose something with working remotely (say more than 75% of the time) and that is the occasional bumping into each other at the water cooler or in the morning when coming in. These are situations you can artificially create by scheduling calls to socialize etc, but that is still not comparable with being in an actual office. By categorically saying no to quick calls, you're isolating you…

In my experience forced online water cooler talk has never worked and was always incredibly awkward and boring.

You've never been in an office and had a productive, random interaction with a coworker?

Like, never?

I've had it happen on a regular basis. I see someone and suddenly remember to tell them "oh, I did some work on that long ago, I'll share it with you" or you overhear a conversation about a topic you didn't know they were looking at?

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#98

Post by drawkward »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #41

I will never understand people who write "Hello" or "Hi Joe" in Slack and then just wait. It has to be some form of mental illness.

If you spent even a nanosecond considering these other people, you might stumble upon the hypothesis that these people are trying to port the way they interact with others in meatspace to an IM channel, rather than assume some form of mental illness.

Re: No "Hello", No "Quick Call", and No Meetings Without an Agenda

#100

Post by PickledJesus »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #77
rethab wrote: post #29

We cannot forget that we also loose something with working remotely (say more than 75% of the time) and that is the occasional bumping into each other at the water cooler or in the morning when coming in. These are situations you can artificially create by scheduling calls to socialize etc, but that is still not comparable with being in an actual office. By categorically saying no to quick calls, you're isolating you…

I like my isolation. As an employee with minimal stake in the outcome of my teams, I don’t ever want to discuss ideas in the workplace. I’ll walk the other way around the office to avoid such a chat.

Well, that's honest! But presumably you can see that it's at odds with the interests of the business..
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