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Apple is America's semiconductor problem

semiconductor-digest.com

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Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#91

Post by chasil »

pie420 wrote: post #69
asdasdsddd wrote: post #59

> Apple buys a far larger share of smartphone and computer semiconductors, given that it accounts for half of global smartphones sales and earns 85% of all smartphones I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author who is citing sales and profits instead of units produced as a metric.

units sold dont matter when the competition is selling $100 smartphones at a loss. The fact that one company is making 85% of the profits in an entire industry as massive as SMARTPHONES should be terrifying, but i guess we don't care about monopolism for some reason

I would like nothing better than watching the FTC take a scalpel to Apple.

The vivisection of the PC division, the semiconductors, iOS, iPhone, and iPad into separate companies would be deeply satisfying.

Shareholders might actually applaud the results in the end.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#92

Post by hedgehog »

zamadatix wrote: post #64
Arn_Thor wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple was an Intel customer. Talking about Apple’s role in the semiconductor sector MUST include Intel because one must explain how and why Apple decided to develop their own (first mobile, then computer) chips in the first place instead of sticking with Intel. Why is Intel not competitive? THAT question seems much more pertinent to America’s chip travails

I don't think chip design conversation, particularly for mobile, really have much to do with the semiconductor production conversation. Sticking with that theme when Apple was doing their own mobile CPUs with ARM Intel's semiconductor fab capabilities were industry leading. I think Intel probably deserves a mention in the article but that line of question feels like the wrong angle of approach for it.

Intel was the last company to have domestic leading edge fabs and they used to be one of (the?) highest volume producers by wafer count so they're a pretty big part of any conversation about US semiconductor manufacturing. Another is AMD and their fab spinout as GlobalFoundries, and why GF stopped at 12nm.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#93

Post by iamacyborg »

jocaal wrote: post #61
duxup wrote: post #32

I have zero doubt Apple's influence is considerable and maybe monopolistic or something like that in a number of ways. But I find an article that doesn't even address any other companies a little hard to swallow. Are other companies simply not able to "reshore" chip fabs? I have no idea what some of the tidbits thrown in about the apple watch has anything to do with the topic. Let alone some of the heavy handed lines…

> But I find an article that doesn't even address any other companies a little hard to swallow. Are other companies simply not able to "reshore" chip fabs? I urge you to look at the earnings of some of the most popular chip manufacturers and then look at the earnings of apple (also ignore nvidia as it is an obvious outlier). Creating a modern chip fab takes A LOT of money and is simply impossible when some of the mos…

> Also it would be quite scary if apple is allowed that type of vertical integration.

Scary in what way?

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#94

Post by BenFranklin100 »

p1necone wrote: post #68
asdasdsddd wrote: post #59

> Apple buys a far larger share of smartphone and computer semiconductors, given that it accounts for half of global smartphones sales and earns 85% of all smartphones I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author who is citing sales and profits instead of units produced as a metric.

I imagine sales numbers and profits are publicly available information, whereas actual # of units produced is likely not an easy number to find?

Given Android has 71% of the worldwide market share it’s difficult to make the argument Apple holds a monopoly on the smartphone market [1]. Even in the US, until about 2020, Android had a higher subscriber base, and there is no reason the situation could not reverse and iOS drop below its July 2023 53% subscriber market share [2].

Moreover, give iPhones are significantly more expensive than comparable Android phones, Apple’s ability to claw market share back from Android phones over the last decade is the opposite of how a monopolist might operate by flooding a market with cheap alternatives. It speaks to a consumer perception that iPhones have a larger value.

[1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held...

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#95

Post by rowanG077 »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #75
asdasdsddd wrote: post #59

> Apple buys a far larger share of smartphone and computer semiconductors, given that it accounts for half of global smartphones sales and earns 85% of all smartphones I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author who is citing sales and profits instead of units produced as a metric.

You don't think that's a pretty good proxy for units? Especially leading edge parts.

It really isn't. Apple pays insanely well to exclusively use TSMC top tier node. I would not be surprised if the SoC in an iphone costs Apple 10 times as much as the average android phone SoC.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#96

Post by necovek »

malkosta wrote: post #67

The idea that introducing more regulations will foster the U.S. semiconductor industry doesn’t make sense. History shows that heavy regulation often stifles competition and innovation, leading to stagnation—similar to what happened in Russia’s outdated industries. Instead of imposing more rules that could entrench dominant players, the focus should be on creating an environment that encourages competition and innovat…

> Instead of imposing more rules that could entrench dominant players, the focus should be on creating an environment that encourages competition and innovation.

How do you "create an environment" without "imposing more rules"? If you don't really do anything, status quo remains. I guess you could be referring to rules that need to be abolished, so I wonder which ones are really stopping competitors to Apple from springing up that we should do away with?

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#97

Post by windexh8er »

causal wrote: post #46
duxup wrote: post #32

I have zero doubt Apple's influence is considerable and maybe monopolistic or something like that in a number of ways. But I find an article that doesn't even address any other companies a little hard to swallow. Are other companies simply not able to "reshore" chip fabs? I have no idea what some of the tidbits thrown in about the apple watch has anything to do with the topic. Let alone some of the heavy handed lines…

Yeah I'm a little confused by the premise. How would reshoring chip production be easier if Apple weren't out there buying chips? I get that they are buying up all of the TSMC chips in some segments. Doesn't that just create demand for an alternative? I can't cohere the themes of this article.

It's not just TSMC chips. Apple forces other chip manufacturers into exclusive deals to lock out the ability for 3rd party repair to be done cost effectively and reliably. Apple shouldn't be able to control the chip markets as they do. As indicated in the article they create slave labor conditions in a lot of these manufacturers because they're wholly dependent on Apple's whims. This also creates an e-waste problem globally as Apple inhibits the ability to more easily repair their hardware. Louis Rossman has some great examples [0] of Apple continuing to put defective hardware into devices that Apple knows will, and has, failed and there is no easy way to replace these components because Apple has locked up the supply chain via purchasing all available inventory and having exclusive rights to non-proprietary chips. This means you can't repair a device you own at a fiscally fair price. Instead you're forced into buying an entire assembly so Apple can charge a much higher multiple on a part that has higher margins which may just force you to buy an entirely new product because of the price point differential.

[0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DF-MOkotA&feature=shared

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#98

Post by microtherion »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #19
wil421 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the tech version of Walmart killing the small town. Except they kill American “tech manufacturing” or whatever you want to call it. It’s 100% about borderline slave labor pay. I used to think it was because chip manufacturing is very nasty but I think it’s both pay and subpar working conditions.

> Except they kill American “tech manufacturing” or whatever you want to call it. This is the part I don't understand... they have placed orders with the new fabs that aren't even built yet. How are they killing American manufacturing if there is no American manufacturing for them to buy from?

And it's not just isolated factories. There is a whole ecosystem of interrelated manufacturing & assembly companies that you would have to transplant to the US.

And I keep hearing that there are hundreds of thousands of people working on iPhone assembly. I can't even imagine how long it would take to replicate such a workforce in the US. Wages aside, this seems to be rather exacting, meticulous work with limited paths of advancement. Where are these laborers going to come from?

As Steve Jobs is reported to have told Barack Obama in 2010: "These jobs are not coming back".

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#99

Post by SllX »

> and more action needs to be taken by the federal government to rein in its control over the global electronics supply chain.

Yeah so here it is. The moment you start talking command and control economies you need to GTFO the room.

Re: Apple is America's semiconductor problem

#100

Post by pessimizer »

alephnerd wrote: post #71
asdasdsddd wrote: post #59

> Apple buys a far larger share of smartphone and computer semiconductors, given that it accounts for half of global smartphones sales and earns 85% of all smartphones I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author who is citing sales and profits instead of units produced as a metric.

> I feel like I'm getting trolled by the author Because it's Matt Stoller. I've commented (with citations) enough on HN about Stoller's biases and issues around analysis [0][1] He's upped his content publishing the past few months now that he is competing with Oren Cass to change mindshare and build a prominent profile, but Cass is a Romney protege so he's limited. If Trump becomes president, Stoller is most likely g…

Let me get this straight: the "close relationship to JD Vance" is that he wrote an article that mentioned that Vance said something nice about Lina Khan, and this article means that Trump will "most likely" fire Lina Khan and hire Matt Stoller?
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