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Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

stopkillinggames.com

91–100 of 160 posts

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://insideevs.com/news/725463/fisker-ocean-owners-bankru... Apparently, isn't the future great?

But… what happens if you drive out of coverage? Someone must have said that at some point during the development?

Probably was admonished for asking inconvenient questions.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#92
post #90

> Require video games sold Wouldn't this just incentivise companies to move to a F2P and/or subscription model? There's no expectation that, just because I've downloaded the client , I should be able to use a VPN service after the servers are discontinued. Or use AutoCAD after my licence has expired. You don't need to leave the gaming realm to imagine the unintended consequences of this petition - just look at the he…

well, we can ban subscription models too ;-)

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#93
post #48
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think piracy is the best method of preservation because it's removed from a financial incentive. The problem is that piracy doesn't help for always online "games as a service" games where the game is killed after the server has shut down. You can't pirate the server because it was never available, and outside of being lucky enough that a few hackers dedicate a lot of spare time to reverse engineering it, that gam…

If you look on the thing you sign when getting a steam account, you don't actually own any of the games. Just like the MMO's, you cant play them when steam or producer decides to shut them down.

>If you look on the thing you sign

ToSes aren't legally binding when they require you to waive your rights. This has been tested in courts repeatedly.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#94
post #90

> Require video games sold Wouldn't this just incentivise companies to move to a F2P and/or subscription model? There's no expectation that, just because I've downloaded the client , I should be able to use a VPN service after the servers are discontinued. Or use AutoCAD after my licence has expired. You don't need to leave the gaming realm to imagine the unintended consequences of this petition - just look at the he…

As I understand, this would also apply to e.g. micro-transactions/cosmetics which would be categorized as 'possessions' if I follow the wording in this proposal. So this would include F2P games, requiring them to provide a way to enjoy those cosmetics.

As for subscription-based games, Ross Scott put them in a separate category in a previous video of his [1], as you willingly pay for access to a service which has a known end date (end of the month). Although with the micro-transactions angle in mind, I'm not sure how this changes things.

[1]: "Games as a service" is fraud, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUAX0gnZ3Nw

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#95
post #29
post #6

People want to be hooked up on subscription because schools and parents do not preach long-term values (well, maybe only orthodox religious minorities do). We are in this situation because of a shrinking time horizon for the modern society (aka "high time preference"). People want instant gratification, buy-now-pay-later, pay attention to the packaging, not content. Most citizens are conditioned to live here and now.…

Customers generally do not want to be hooked on subscriptions, that's a choice that's forced on them by the "you will own nothing and be happy" rentier faction. > Even climate change activists frame the issue (that is supposed to be about long-term thinking) on a very short scale: do something hysterical No need for "hysterical" in there. But the more and sooner action is taken the better the outcome.

I disagree. Netflix is successful because you get a never ending stream of entertainment for a predictable cost. No need to make consumer decisions on each and every piece of fun.

It takes extra effort to avoid this trap. I and my wife had to make a conscious decision to abstain from watching any TV shows because of their addictive structure - same goes for the algorithm feed of reels. If we need to watch a movie in the evening, it must be a complete thing in itself, not a beginning of a 5-season saga.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#96
post #90

> Require video games sold Wouldn't this just incentivise companies to move to a F2P and/or subscription model? There's no expectation that, just because I've downloaded the client , I should be able to use a VPN service after the servers are discontinued. Or use AutoCAD after my licence has expired. You don't need to leave the gaming realm to imagine the unintended consequences of this petition - just look at the he…

Possibly, but it is an unmitigated good to incentivize companies to position their relationships with customers honestly. People approach free-to-play games and subscription based games with different attitudes than purchased games. A purchase carries a reasonable expectation of durability.

On the other hand, if you sell cosmetic items in your subscription based or free-to-play game, then you have sold something with a reasonable expectation of durability which is somewhat already enshrined in the digital goods laws. If you rent those items for a limited time then the relationship is again honest.

If it is reasonable to expect a limited time frame of usage from the software then it is reasonable for the company to state what guarantees they are willing to make for that time frame in a subscription contract. The presumption of durability should carry the weight of law (up to consumables and wear and tear).

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#97
post #90

> Require video games sold Wouldn't this just incentivise companies to move to a F2P and/or subscription model? There's no expectation that, just because I've downloaded the client , I should be able to use a VPN service after the servers are discontinued. Or use AutoCAD after my licence has expired. You don't need to leave the gaming realm to imagine the unintended consequences of this petition - just look at the he…

I don't think this is a good argument - that is, to not hold companies accountable because doing so might get them to do other undesirable things. It's not like the mobile F2P dumpster fire doesn't exist already without the proposed changes and even PC games have moved significantly towards F2P, especially for online titles which are the main concern of the petition.

Also while this may not be the current public opinion, F2P generally still involves income via sales - not of the whole game but of tiny portions of it dangled in front of you. Any worthwile rule change would also require those to continue to be available to you when the company decides to shut the servers.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#98
post #41
post #18

As I understand it copyright on a videogame is 50 years but the vast majority of games- or all entertainment really- stops making money after a few years. It gets worse if your game has licensed music in it! I think piracy is the best method of preservation because it's removed from a financial incentive. Publishers just aren't going to spend a dime if it doesn't make a buck.

> but the vast majority of games- or all entertainment really- stops making money after a few years I don't think that's universally true. Paradox Interactive are a studio with grand strategy games, and even decades-old games still get new sales of the base game and the DLCs, with a strong user base.

Which decades-old games are Paradox getting lots of money from? HoI4 released in 2016, are people really buying the original HoI (from 2002)?

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://insideevs.com/news/725463/fisker-ocean-owners-bankru... Apparently, isn't the future great?

But… what happens if you drive out of coverage? Someone must have said that at some point during the development?

Luckily it doesn't really matter. At that size, it's at most a 400 W panel, so the energy it produces is rather negligible.

It was always a "just because we can" feature.

Re: Stop Killing Games – European Citizens' Initiative

#100
post #48
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think piracy is the best method of preservation because it's removed from a financial incentive. The problem is that piracy doesn't help for always online "games as a service" games where the game is killed after the server has shut down. You can't pirate the server because it was never available, and outside of being lucky enough that a few hackers dedicate a lot of spare time to reverse engineering it, that gam…

If you look on the thing you sign when getting a steam account, you don't actually own any of the games. Just like the MMO's, you cant play them when steam or producer decides to shut them down.

That's how publishers want thingns to work. But if the store interface gives one impression and the smallprint annother thne it's not clear that the contract is what courts will uphold.

It is worth noticing though that Steam has stopped using the word "Buy" and instead use terms "Add to Cart" and "Continue to payment" which are perhaps more ambiguous but still not much so IMO. They did however use "Buy" in the past and changing the store interface now should not excempt them from fulfilling the expectations they have set in the past.

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