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Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

newscientist.com

91–100 of 148 posts

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell it how it is. No cigarettes either. But it's OK to go camping and live in a cloud of smoke for days. I wonder how many cigarettes a day equals being in a big campground with fires everywhere for 2 days is?

An AQI of 250 plus is equivalent to 7 cigarettes a day: https://woods.stanford.edu/news/health-impacts-wildfire-smok... .

It depends how much time you spend outside? I’m just thinking back to my days in Beijing when 250 PPI was not a bad day.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#92
post #24

At the army, I remember a doctor insisting on a very precise answer to the question if I was drinking alcohol "never" or "rarely". for coffee it's probably very similar we say "the dose makes the poison" but it doesn't change that regularly drinking a low dose of poison is not good.

Yet coffee consumption is correlated with longer life. Probably the Quercetin and Trigonelline in coffee offsets the supposed damage.

I suspect it may he a correlation not a causation.

People who don't have access to Healthcare don't have the luxury of things like coffee, I bet that shows in the data.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#93

I'm amazed that this is still an ongoing discussion. All of these "studies" have been distracting with muddied data from a very simple, unambiguous scientific fact: alcohol is a poison. By its immediate biological effects, it literally is a poison. And you shouldn't drink poison. Decades of studies rationalizing that "actually, people who drink two glasses of wine a day live longer" and their ilk, have only ever dist…

Capsaicin is also a poison so clearly "poison => always avoid" has deficiencies as a model. Hence, studies.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell it how it is. No cigarettes either. But it's OK to go camping and live in a cloud of smoke for days. I wonder how many cigarettes a day equals being in a big campground with fires everywhere for 2 days is?

An AQI of 250 plus is equivalent to 7 cigarettes a day: https://woods.stanford.edu/news/health-impacts-wildfire-smok... .

What about an AQI of ~1500? Yeah, we lived through that here 4 years ago during the fires here in Oregon, while waiting to find out if we’d told to evac.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#95
post #5

Ethanol is metabolized to acetaldehyde. Aldehydes form crosslinks between proteins and DNA (and DNA with itself). Inactivation of the aldehyde-metabolizing ALDH2 enzyme (which happens in 50% of East Asians) increases risk for various disorders including cancer and late-onset Alzheimer's. Cancers linked to alcohol use: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/diet-physical-... The American Cancer Society recommen…

> at any level This is nonsense advice. Would you take the advice of someone who recommended never driving because any level of driving risks death? That's obviously stupid. Or it should be anyway though I suspect some pendants will try to argue it. If you're one of those people what about never going outside? The sun's deadly rays might give you cancer and there's no safe level of sunlight !! Risks are about trade-o…

Driving cars and riding in cars tend to have large benefits whereas alcohol does not.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An AQI of 250 plus is equivalent to 7 cigarettes a day: https://woods.stanford.edu/news/health-impacts-wildfire-smok... .

What about an AQI of ~1500? Yeah, we lived through that here 4 years ago during the fires here in Oregon, while waiting to find out if we’d told to evac.

Once the AQI exceeds 300 or so, I would run an air purifier at home (keeping the windows closed) and wear an N95 mask whenever I venture outdoors.

Air filtration works very well for smoke (and other particulates).

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#97
post #24

At the army, I remember a doctor insisting on a very precise answer to the question if I was drinking alcohol "never" or "rarely". for coffee it's probably very similar we say "the dose makes the poison" but it doesn't change that regularly drinking a low dose of poison is not good.

> we say "the dose makes the poison" but it doesn't change that regularly drinking a low dose of poison is not good.

I'm not sure that's the right conclusion there. Vitamin A is a poison, because it's toxic in high doses. But that doesn't mean you should avoid vitamin A.

The expression means that a poison cannot be defined independently of its dose. You need to know the chemical and the amount.

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#98
post #5

Ethanol is metabolized to acetaldehyde. Aldehydes form crosslinks between proteins and DNA (and DNA with itself). Inactivation of the aldehyde-metabolizing ALDH2 enzyme (which happens in 50% of East Asians) increases risk for various disorders including cancer and late-onset Alzheimer's. Cancers linked to alcohol use: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/diet-physical-... The American Cancer Society recommen…

> at any level This is nonsense advice. Would you take the advice of someone who recommended never driving because any level of driving risks death? That's obviously stupid. Or it should be anyway though I suspect some pendants will try to argue it. If you're one of those people what about never going outside? The sun's deadly rays might give you cancer and there's no safe level of sunlight !! Risks are about trade-o…

> Risks are about trade-offs. If the American Cancer Society wants to be helpful and actually listened to they need to provide practical actionable advice, not this cop-out.

I feel like the medical community is slowly starting to finally realize that they can't force patients to minmax their lives. Why would I live a long life that isn't enjoyable?

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#99

I'm amazed that this is still an ongoing discussion. All of these "studies" have been distracting with muddied data from a very simple, unambiguous scientific fact: alcohol is a poison. By its immediate biological effects, it literally is a poison. And you shouldn't drink poison. Decades of studies rationalizing that "actually, people who drink two glasses of wine a day live longer" and their ilk, have only ever dist…

While the conclusion looks like a good general guideline, the logic is flawed. There are things that are beneficial (or even necessary) in appropriate amount that are bad in larger dosage: resistance training, cardio, sauna, sulforaphane, food in general, fasting, even water..

Some of it works due to hormetic effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis

Re: Why many studies wrongly claim it's healthy to drink a little alcohol

#100

I'm amazed that this is still an ongoing discussion. All of these "studies" have been distracting with muddied data from a very simple, unambiguous scientific fact: alcohol is a poison. By its immediate biological effects, it literally is a poison. And you shouldn't drink poison. Decades of studies rationalizing that "actually, people who drink two glasses of wine a day live longer" and their ilk, have only ever dist…

It's not quite so black and white, since poisons are generally defined in conjunction with their dose. Eg "The dose makes the poison".

With alcohol, we don't really have a dose, like we do with eg vitamin A, which is toxic beyond a certain level. And as the article states, there are social benefits with drinking alcohol which could, if the dose of alcohol is low enough, offset the cost-benefit analysis of drinking.

> But he points out that it doesn’t consider the social aspects of moderate drinking. “It is healthier to socialise without the need for alcohol, but the benefits of spending time with others is still likely to be greater than the risk from the consumption of one to two units of alcohol,” he says. “The challenge being perhaps limiting alcohol intake in this way.”

And socialising is one of the controllable variables that can reduce the risk of dementia: https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(20)30367-6/full...

But also: excessive alcohol is a controllable variable that can increase the risk of dementia! https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(20)30367-6/full...

It's a complicated balance.

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