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Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

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Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#91

Post by m104 »

jlgreco wrote: post #58
jmillikin wrote: post #17

Ten years ago, a computer's useful lifetime was measured in months. Hardware specs were advancing so quickly that a two-year-old computer might not be capable of running newly-released software. RAM, disk, and even CPU upgrades were necessary to keep up to date. Except for gamers, this is no longer true. Computers without user-replaceable parts are a natural outcome of the fact that users no longer need to replace pa…

I am not sure how to reconcile my general agreement with what you are saying with my real life observation of how rarely I see people with Apple hardware older than 2, maybe 3, years old.

To put it in perspective, though, most of Apple's customers only started buying their hardware in the last two years and rarely purchased older models.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#92

Post by tbeseda »

X-Istence wrote: post #33
yellowbkpk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it obvious that your example is different than "My $3000 MacBook Pro's SSD died the other day. I tried to open it up and replace the SSD, but they deliberately made it impossible for me to service. I had to buy an entire new computer!" Sure, you can pull out a microscope and complain about how you can't fix your SMD components, but the vast majority of consumer (Apple, even!) laptops have previously been very e…

The SSD is a separate part that can be removed. In the future (within a year, before then Applecare will take care of defects) I am expecting manufacturers to have third-party SSD's available that will work in the new MacBook Pro's.

Correct. It seems faulty RAM will be the real trouble beyond that first year, as it's soldered to the board.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#93

Post by ryannielsen »

jwallaceparker wrote: post #4

This is going to be a trend with Apple. They have a good thing going with the iPhone and iPad devices which are both non-upgradeable: consumers are compelled to buy a new device every couple of years or so. It's pretty clear they're getting rid of the Mac Pro, which is highly configurable (with memory, storage and graphics cards) and thus has a much longer life span. So is Apple aiming for a future where you have to…

So is Apple aiming for a future where you have to buy a new laptop every 2 years to have a machine that is relevant?

Or Apple's simply trying to make machines that are thin, light, power efficient, sturdy, and reliable. A user-servicable or upgradable machine does not necessarily lend itself to all of those traits.

And is a non-upgradable machine that's two years old really irrelevant? That machine could still run Mountain Lion, and could still run all of the apps available on the App Store. It could still play Diablo 3. It could still surf the web.

Just because a machine cannot be upgraded to the latest CPUs or graphics cards does not make it irrelevant. And the vast majority of users are often fine with the amount of RAM which shipped in their machines.

Quite simply, I posit that Apple could not build a machine like the Retina MacBook Pro if they relied on user-upgradable, off-the-shelf parts. It would necessarily be bigger and heavier, and there's a good chance it'd be less sturdy. It wouldn't be a machine that lives up to Apple's standards.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#94

Post by r00fus »

ezy wrote: post #41
jmillikin wrote: post #17

Ten years ago, a computer's useful lifetime was measured in months. Hardware specs were advancing so quickly that a two-year-old computer might not be capable of running newly-released software. RAM, disk, and even CPU upgrades were necessary to keep up to date. Except for gamers, this is no longer true. Computers without user-replaceable parts are a natural outcome of the fact that users no longer need to replace pa…

This. I think it's also worth noting that for a pro laptop , price is not a major issue, if you're trying to treat your laptop like a BYOB, you're doing it wrong. So: (a) The RAM capacity is limited by the chipset anyway, and on "pro" machines, most people max out the RAM when they purchase or directly after. It's just that now you can't cheat and buy the RAM elsewhere to avoid an apple price premium. (b) The SSD is…

> One issue though: You had better keep that SSD backed up! 'cause if the machine goes south, you have no way of accessing your data unless someone comes out with a apple propretary card egd to sata adapter.

Target Disk mode to the rescue [1]. Firewire not needed, thunderbolt is supported now (so you'll need a t-bolt enabled enclosure or drive).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_Disk_Mode

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#95

Post by jlgreco »

m104 wrote: post #91
jlgreco wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how to reconcile my general agreement with what you are saying with my real life observation of how rarely I see people with Apple hardware older than 2, maybe 3, years old.

To put it in perspective, though, most of Apple's customers only started buying their hardware in the last two years and rarely purchased older models.

Do you have any references for that? That sounds rather weird since I know in university back in 2006/2007 probably about 90% of the student population had macs. Coffee shops have similarly been dominated by them for at least 5 years now.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#96

Post by kamjam »

jarek wrote: post #89
kamjam wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to replace the whole engine if your car battery dies, even in a BMW, regardless of warranty status. Yes, that was my whole point... I don't have to replace the engine because the battery isn't glued to it. So I may have to remove a few nuts and bolts and it may not be easily accessible, but they are replaceable. If someone told me that I should replace my car because the warranty had run out, and besid…

I take it you won't be buying this product then? I don't support Apple's policy in this case, but I just won't buy it so I don't really care how mad it is. m_eiman's description of Apple's policy was accurate, and I voiced my support.

Ahh fair enough, I thought you were in support of the general principle. Agree it is Apple's policy, i presume there was meant to be a /sarc tagt in there some where :)

I was considering buying it, but I am not an Apple user and would have just installed Windows on it. BUT I can't afford to pay up front for things I may or may not use either.

I have refused to buy Apple for a number of years, because of things like not having a removable battery (which a lot of phones are doing now), no memory upgrade slot and biggest of all - iTunes!!!.I like carrying a spare battery cos it is not always possible to be by a plug. I like being able upgrade my storage because now 16gb isn't enough (and 32gb is much cheaper).

But better to be informed about this kind of thing before purchase!

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#97

Post by kamjam »

_djo_ wrote: post #90
kamjam wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, fair enough. You're assuming that a Mac repair shop will un-glue the battery and not regard it as "oh well, you need a new one" like they do when say a TV part breaks these days (they may well be able to, I genuinely don't know). Problem may well be though the cost of doing this may be quite high once you are out of warranty (again, I don't know, but suspect replacing a faulty RAM chip will not be cheap).

That's also a fair point and I hope that doesn't happen. I guess we'll have to see, although the niche industry that has grown around even iPhone repairs suggests that companies may provide the service. Unfortunately I don't see a way for any company to make machines like the Retina MBP in future without using custom and tough-to-replace components.

Yes, agree on all your points. I have a colleague who buys Macs purely because their build quality is so high and less likely to break. I'm sure Apple could have designed a new connector for the RAM, and not glued the battery in such a way - it is Apple after all, just look at the innovative products they have already come up with, this should be nothing! It will be interesting to read why they took the decisions they did.

Having said all that, it is a lovely machine, and if I had a much higher disposable income or I was a Mac user (never have used one!) then I would buy one... could install Windows vbut can't get over the lack of right click :D

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#98

Post by greedo »

nirvana wrote: post #63
jmillikin wrote: post #17

Ten years ago, a computer's useful lifetime was measured in months. Hardware specs were advancing so quickly that a two-year-old computer might not be capable of running newly-released software. RAM, disk, and even CPU upgrades were necessary to keep up to date. Except for gamers, this is no longer true. Computers without user-replaceable parts are a natural outcome of the fact that users no longer need to replace pa…

Another factor of this is that Apple has a global servicing network in its Apple stores that is kinda astounding. With a sony laptop, you would have to mail it off to their national service center, wait a few weeks and get it mailed back to you for warranty repair.[1] The same repair can often be accomplished in an Apple store very quickly. For example. I bought a Macbook Pro in the USA. I was in the UK and had a pro…

"I think iFixit is looking at these machines in the context of other players in the industry."

I think iFixit might also have a conflict of interest in that it sells repair parts for Apple equipment...

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#99

Post by sveiss »

mgkimsal wrote: post #79
timc3 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have Applecare? Or is this just service that you have gotten?

FWIW, I didn't have applecare, bought a used macbook from craigslist, then had the case crack in the UK. Apple store on Regent Street (IIRC) fixed it in about 3 hours - they had to hunt for a US-style keyboard part. No applecare, no major hassle. I will say initially they told me to drop it off and I'd have it back in 3-5 days. I said that was unacceptable, then they said 'leave it here and we'll call you'. Got a cal…

I had my UK MacBook with a cracked case repaired twice now, once while in the US. I did have to wait a few days that time, but I think it's a little more reasonable for US keyboards to be in stock in the flagship London store, vs UK keyboards available in a random corner of Arizona.

Both times, it's been a much better experience than getting other equipment repaired/replaced.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#100

Post by Dobbs »

jarek wrote: post #84
nirvana wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another factor of this is that Apple has a global servicing network in its Apple stores that is kinda astounding. With a sony laptop, you would have to mail it off to their national service center, wait a few weeks and get it mailed back to you for warranty repair.[1] The same repair can often be accomplished in an Apple store very quickly. For example. I bought a Macbook Pro in the USA. I was in the UK and had a pro…

It's not a global service network. You don't even have to go to the 'third world' with unreliable electricity to see that - there are no official Apple Stores in Poland [1] or Trinidad and Tobago [2], off the top of my head. Also, getting warranty service in TT is much easier with a Dell than with an Apple. [1] http://www.apple.com/pl/buy/locator/map.html?tySearch=1&... - one "Premium Reseller" in a metropolitan area…

There are parts of the US where you have to travel several hours to get to an Apple Store.
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