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Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

mstdn.social

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Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#91

Post by mrweasel »

account42 wrote: post #81
shadowgovt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's better for a browser feature the user has some control over to be the implementation point for this than incentivizing site owners to come up with novel tracking strategies.

Except this is not how things work. All you are doing is giving the advertisers another tool to track you, it won't magically make them stop using all the other ones.

I was thinking that they'd be forced to adopt this, as 3rd. party cookies goes away, but somehow I sense it's more likely that advertisers would adopt something like device fingerprinting instead.

The online shopping businesses really isn't interested in privacy, I don't even really blame the adtech industry for this one. The companies running the ads and retargetting campaigns want to know who clicked on what and when. Anything less will trigger a frantic search for ways to evade privacy improvements.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#93

Post by prepend »

no_way wrote: post #88
account42 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The scare quotes here are uncalled for: it is privacy-preserving. It is strictly less privacy-preserving than not implementing this "feature" that has zero benefit to the user running the browser. At the very least it pings yet another third party, most likely it effectively leaks much more. > The best objection to these proposals isn't privacy, it's that a browser vendor is lifting a finger for advertisers. I gues…

Web needs to make money. Giving tools to advertisers while making sure user privacy is preserved is better than free reign of tracking we have before, no? I myself do not like ads or tracking, but we need to be realistic and there needs a way to make web sustainable. How to do that and making sure that monopolies like Google are in check is a valid concern though, but in these conversations is the only point I hear.…

> Web needs to make money

I don’t think this is true. No one “needs” to make money. Museums don’t need to make money. OSS doesn’t need to make money.

The web has value without making money.

But even if it does make money, it doesn’t need to maximize profits at the expense of user privacy and joy.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#94

Post by wasmitnetzen »

account42 wrote: post #81
shadowgovt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's better for a browser feature the user has some control over to be the implementation point for this than incentivizing site owners to come up with novel tracking strategies.

Except this is not how things work. All you are doing is giving the advertisers another tool to track you, it won't magically make them stop using all the other ones.

To be fair, Firefox has added a fair amount of tools to try to block all the other ones. Along with supporting Ublock et al.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#95

Post by pietervdvn »

JW_00000 wrote: post #42
ants_everywhere wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it the same old tools used by other ad companies, like differential privacy?

A major difference is that the data is stored in your browser, and aggregated anonymously by Mozilla (also using differential privacy). Using the techniques you refer to, the ad platforms both store the data and then aggregate it, possibly promising to add differential privacy. The advantages I see are: (1) you can verify which data is collected by the browser and when/how it is sent to Mozilla, because this code is…

According to their blog post, Let's Encrypt will run the aggregator service - which is even better.

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#96

Post by prepend »

pasc1878 wrote: post #72
tgvaughan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with this is that ideally, software I deign to run on my computer acts with only my interests in mind. The overarching goal of these changes is not to preserve my privacy, but rather to help advertising companies to learn something about how I interact with their ads. I don't care that Mozilla's particular implementation is not as bad for my privacy as it could be, I only care that their motivation has swi…

Fine. Then pay for the tools you use rather than force them to get money from another source. The toolmakers work to earn a living.

Firefox is open source. I do pay for it as a tool.

Toolmakers also work out of desire to practice their craft. Many projects are written, not to “earn a living.”

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#97

Post by mrweasel »

stefan_ wrote: post #16
mrweasel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla also needs this for their own ad business: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/mozilla-anonym-raising-t...

Oh goodie the latest Mozilla C-level "playing VC" expedition! Anything to not focus on the actual core business.

Makes you wonder how much it would cost to "just" do Firefox. I'm sure it's not free and there is some overhead in terms of management, politics, work on standards, fundraising, legal, and perhaps a little marketing.

Still, what we need to raise collectively to have a modern browser, built on "not chrome" and with none of the services or other programs Mozilla is running?

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#98

Post by happyraul »

prepend wrote: post #93
no_way wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web needs to make money. Giving tools to advertisers while making sure user privacy is preserved is better than free reign of tracking we have before, no? I myself do not like ads or tracking, but we need to be realistic and there needs a way to make web sustainable. How to do that and making sure that monopolies like Google are in check is a valid concern though, but in these conversations is the only point I hear.…

> Web needs to make money I don’t think this is true. No one “needs” to make money. Museums don’t need to make money. OSS doesn’t need to make money. The web has value without making money. But even if it does make money, it doesn’t need to maximize profits at the expense of user privacy and joy.

How do OSS devs support themselves without money?

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#99

Post by AlexandrB »

krelian wrote: post #66

There is a lot fire directed at Mozilla on HN. I'm not saying I support or can make sense of all of their decisions but I'd love for someone in the criticizers camp to explain what steps they would take to make Mozilla and the continued development of Firefox a financially sustainable and independent endeavour.

What's the point of an alternative to Chrome if it replicates the same bad behaviors and follows the same incentives?

Re: Firefox 128 enables "privacy-preserving" ad measurements by default

#100

Post by subjectsigma »

krelian wrote: post #66

There is a lot fire directed at Mozilla on HN. I'm not saying I support or can make sense of all of their decisions but I'd love for someone in the criticizers camp to explain what steps they would take to make Mozilla and the continued development of Firefox a financially sustainable and independent endeavour.

I have some ideas of varying quality. Others have been mentioned in the thread.

Really, though, it’s not like me or any of the commenters are being paid millions a year to fix these problems. If I were being paid $6,903,089 I feel like I might be well-equipped to fix them.

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