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Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

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Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#91
post #23

Self-hosted platform as a service?! Isn't the whole point of platforms as a service (from the customer perspective) that you don't need to do the hassle of self hosting. There are pros and cons to using an external service and to self hosting. And just throwing all these words at me together makes me feel like there isn't a coherent mental model of what this is trying to be, or if there is it isn't clearly communicat…

Exactly. If one has to self-host actually, it's best to deal with the direct infrastructure (IAAS) layers and get its efficiency instead of going through additional layer overhead.

I don't know much about NodeJS/React world but to compare with PHP, this is the equivalent of self-hosting an open source CPanel instead of creating a LAMP setup on VPS and working with Linux and PHP directly?

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#92
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't the entire point of vercel/netlify/cloudflare is that you don't have to self-host? No. There are two pieces to those platforms. The first is a platform that supports git commit as a deploy method out of the box. That’s the big one. The second is auto scaling. That’s where not having to self host is actually a big deal. But that’s also where the bills come. A lot of smaller builders are right now looking to ha…

The management when something goes wrong (take this from experience) is very time consuming, especially if you lack experience and/or dedicated staff. Git history deployments is a simple k8s controller, pretty sure there's a helm chart for that. Autoscaling is what I mean by kubernetes so yes totally agree. Coolify seems pretty neat. Still has the overhead of management when dealing with clustering and multi-site.

Some good points to discuss here.

Firstly the git history managed via a controller / helm chart. That’s sufficiently complex. The mindset of k8s/cloudnative doesn’t translate easily from the pet vps control server which comes with its own disk and persistence. So conceptually a management layer like cooling is objectively easier.

But that’s a nit really.

I think the idea of management being time consuming is more interesting. It’s true. And I think it’s true no matter what you do.

Time consuming management applies to any sufficiently complex infrastructure or team. No matter what you have these questions to answer.

How is access ma aged?

How does debugging a broken build work?

How does secret and config management work?

How does disaster recovery work?

If you are storing config as code, how are you managing deployment of that?

If you use k8s, how do you manage feature deprecation across versions? Even a managed version won’t help you resolve having to move from some kind of resource/v1beta to resource/v1.

I don’t say this as a slam dunk against anything. I think there are different levels of comfort with certain paradigms depending on what you’ve been exposed to over your lifetime. And the solution that feels most convenient to you is what you’ll want to work with. And for each type of preference we are going to see different solutions. All of which will be time consuming to manage in their own ways at a sufficient level of complexity or scale. Basically I prefer talking in these terms because it shifts the conversation away from broad comparisons to something more tangible which is “where does the time complexity lie for this particular approach”. Teams can put that down on paper and decide which one is more palatable and then go with that.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#93
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coolify needs a lot of work imho.

Do you mean it’s missing features or that it requires lots of maintenance and handholding? I’m evaluating some of the options for toy projects so I’m curious to read people’s experiences.

IMO it adds a bunch of complexity (as these types of catch all frontend solutions usually do) to a problem that can be easily solved by becoming proficient in using Docker/Podman and spending a little bit of time reading the documentation for the services you want to run. Its a cool idea but uncessary IMO. There are also a ton of people that like it and I'm just one opinion.

I reccomend you try it but I also think you'll realize you could host that hobby project with half the hardware requirements and half the effort with something like docker-compose or swarm.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#94
post #36
post #23

Self-hosted platform as a service?! Isn't the whole point of platforms as a service (from the customer perspective) that you don't need to do the hassle of self hosting. There are pros and cons to using an external service and to self hosting. And just throwing all these words at me together makes me feel like there isn't a coherent mental model of what this is trying to be, or if there is it isn't clearly communicat…

Further down on the README, it explains how it uses libp2p for network autodiscovery, IPFS for distributed storage, and how it can distribute and share routes and assets and automating load-balancing. It is Webassembly-native, so you don't have to mess with compiling dependencies or execution environments. If it works as well as described, then the underlying technology (and the constraints they have) allows it to be…

We used to call those “turn-key solutions”.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#95
post #23

Self-hosted platform as a service?! Isn't the whole point of platforms as a service (from the customer perspective) that you don't need to do the hassle of self hosting. There are pros and cons to using an external service and to self hosting. And just throwing all these words at me together makes me feel like there isn't a coherent mental model of what this is trying to be, or if there is it isn't clearly communicat…

Nah, this is just Dokku 2 and I love Dokku. I think you’re mistaking a software component “service” and a business model “service”

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#96
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds bigger then it is, raid 10 cuts it in half after all (30tb HDD, 2tb NVMe) It's mostly just for the *arr stack, various self hosted services like vaultwarden, seafile etc and my personal toy projects. I.e. a pwa book reader along with the occasional dev tool I wanna experiment with.

What HDDs do you have for it to be 60TB in total?

6x6GB + 2x12gb

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#97

What's with the vilification of kubernetes? 99% of this document ( https://tau.how/99-Misc/kubernetes/01-k8s-cons/ ) boils down to "You have to understand what a pod, deployment, container, etc is" once you remove every line that discusses the cons of managing a cluster yourself, because nobody actually does that except extremely large orgs. All of these problems go away when you utilize a managed offering like DOKS,…

Nothing wrong with vilification of a mature product. Everyone trying to sell you an alternative will try to differentiate itself from a mature competitor in the market very hard.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#98
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean it’s missing features or that it requires lots of maintenance and handholding? I’m evaluating some of the options for toy projects so I’m curious to read people’s experiences.

IMO it adds a bunch of complexity (as these types of catch all frontend solutions usually do) to a problem that can be easily solved by becoming proficient in using Docker/Podman and spending a little bit of time reading the documentation for the services you want to run. Its a cool idea but uncessary IMO. There are also a ton of people that like it and I'm just one opinion. I reccomend you try it but I also think yo…

I’ve been using docker-compose on a vm for half a decade. Works very well with a reverse proxy + letsencrypt.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#99
post #23

Self-hosted platform as a service?! Isn't the whole point of platforms as a service (from the customer perspective) that you don't need to do the hassle of self hosting. There are pros and cons to using an external service and to self hosting. And just throwing all these words at me together makes me feel like there isn't a coherent mental model of what this is trying to be, or if there is it isn't clearly communicat…

When you have an infrastructure team at your company - that is basically what they do - changing IaaS or your bare metal into PaaS. But yes that is only useful at certain scale of operations.

Maybe with such tooling as original post it will be useful in smaller scale.

Re: Tau: Open-source PaaS – A self-hosted Vercel / Netlify / Cloudflare alternative

#100
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your goal is to self-host your own PaaS, why would you use a managed k8s offering?

"Self-hosting" doesn't necessarily mean you own the hardware. Many people self-host on cloud providers at different levels (Fly, Digital Ocean/Hetzner, GCP/Azure/AWS), and most of those have some managed K8s offering.

Yeah and, as I see with my clients, you are always overpaying for that service. We run a one binary CL (save and die) cluster for $50/mo without containers that makes us millions $ profit a month. Even if it would cost $1000 (it would be far more); a) I rather give that to someone on the street b) it would be far far more busy work for no benefit. Anyone can do what they want; I like profit and I simply don’t like giving these companies money. But each their own. Tau seems the same philosophy as us, so I will add them to our sponsor list.
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