Live data from Hacker News

How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

tedium.co

91–100 of 138 posts

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#91
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has this been shown to be actually-problematic in the three decades since Willy Nelson's album contained a song in the pregap of track 1?

Yes, there's been a serious issue recently reported. Apparently, it has triggered bureaucrats on the internet who can't acknowledge something innocuous that's never caused any problem for decades.

Link?

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#92
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love a new solution that wasn't "break the CD data into pieces." I've never looked inside a CUE file, but it's just text and I don't think it supports meta data, right? We need like a new CUE file to go with the FLAC, right? p.s. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40923646

Ideally, I think I'd want a singular container (of whatever sort) that has the album's audio, the music-related timing metadata (as applicable), and whatever other metadata may be appropriate (lyrics? liner note graphics? music videos? sure!). The audio should be able to be FLAC. But it should also be able to be anything else, like Vorbis or MP3 or AAC or IDK. It needs to be able to be played continuously without abe…

Can’t an MP4 container do most or all of that already? (Pregaps would probably need to become a full-fledged chapter in their own right, with the current spec.)

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#93
post #85

I had a Rammstein ablum, that if you rewound before track 1 there was a black box audio recording of a plane crash were everyone died. It was pretty macabre. I think the CD cover was like a plane's black box if I remember correctly.

Reuse, Reise is the album. It was a Japanese aircraft crash. It was on every album but those released in Japan I'm pretty sure.

It's mostly just scrambled alarms and some Japanese yelling. Without the context it's pretty hard to understand what you're listening to.

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#94
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally, I think I'd want a singular container (of whatever sort) that has the album's audio, the music-related timing metadata (as applicable), and whatever other metadata may be appropriate (lyrics? liner note graphics? music videos? sure!). The audio should be able to be FLAC. But it should also be able to be anything else, like Vorbis or MP3 or AAC or IDK. It needs to be able to be played continuously without abe…

You mentioned MKV - Matroska (MKA for audio, MKV for video) could honestly work quite well for this situation with just a little extra standardization. Audio codecs: use a single stream of whatever codec you'd like. FLAC/Vorbis/MP3/AAC/Opus/etc. can all go into Matroska. Seekable: Use chapters for tracks, and nested chapters for indices. Matroska documentation even gives an example of using ChapterPhysicalEquiv 20 fo…

I'm glad to see this mentioned. This was first thought I had as I progressed through this thread. I'm surprised this isn't a popular, supported standard already.

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#95
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally, I think I'd want a singular container (of whatever sort) that has the album's audio, the music-related timing metadata (as applicable), and whatever other metadata may be appropriate (lyrics? liner note graphics? music videos? sure!). The audio should be able to be FLAC. But it should also be able to be anything else, like Vorbis or MP3 or AAC or IDK. It needs to be able to be played continuously without abe…

You mentioned MKV - Matroska (MKA for audio, MKV for video) could honestly work quite well for this situation with just a little extra standardization. Audio codecs: use a single stream of whatever codec you'd like. FLAC/Vorbis/MP3/AAC/Opus/etc. can all go into Matroska. Seekable: Use chapters for tracks, and nested chapters for indices. Matroska documentation even gives an example of using ChapterPhysicalEquiv 20 fo…

Nested chapters can work for index markers, especially if a player supports them right.

I mean: As mentioned, these have almost never been usable with real CD players in the wild. Maybe not much is lost there. (But the format must still accept these things, and allow them to be usable! An archival format must respect all aspects of the item being archived, including those that are unpopular or disused. I am willing to die on this hill.)

What of things like CD+G? Here in 2024, they're very simple graphics using 35+-year-old tech, and they should be archived neatly, precisely, and without interpretation, to be rendered client-side at a later point. I think I've mentioned it, but we literally have pocket supercomputers in common use today. If we can make the complexities of MAME work for the past couple of decades, and do it with direct ROM dumps, we can do this for CD+G.

But the CD+G must be rendered synchronously with CD audio data on playback. This applies whether it is my Goldilocks example of an Information Society album, or whether it is a CD+G karaoke disk with Garbage's I'm only happy when it rains (and twelve other crowd pleasers from that month of 1995).

How will that work with MKA?

And how will pregaps work?

(Maybe MKA isn't an ideal container if it does not already include avenues that lead to this kind of functionality in ways that are compatible with the original article.)

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#96
post #21

One memorable album using this was Queens of the Stone Age’s Songs for the Deaf. If you rewound from the start of the first track you got 90 seconds of strange sounding (but tuneful) rumbles and bleeps and bloops. When I looked it up online I found out it was called “The Real Song for the Deaf”. It was literally a song for deaf people, the idea was that if they turned it up enough they’d be able to hear the vibration…

I have the hardware and the CD. I did not know you could rewind to negative seconds of the first track. Thank you, you have made my day!

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#97

I remember my friend accidentally found the negative track on a CD and called me up out of breath like aliens just landed. I think it was one of the early AFI albums.We spent the whole weekend checking for negative tracks on every CD we could find. The negatives between songs were also pretty cool sometimes, Mediocre Generica by Leftover Crack makes very good use of them. Listening to it over streaming or even mp3s r…

This makes me wonder how I ever found the hidden tracks on the X-Files soundtrack. Must have been an accident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYyA1Mc3KZM

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#98

I remember my friend accidentally found the negative track on a CD and called me up out of breath like aliens just landed. I think it was one of the early AFI albums.We spent the whole weekend checking for negative tracks on every CD we could find. The negatives between songs were also pretty cool sometimes, Mediocre Generica by Leftover Crack makes very good use of them. Listening to it over streaming or even mp3s r…

> Mediocre Generica by Leftover Crack

Those names are a rabbit hole event horizon. Album released 9/11, working title of Shoot The Kids At School was rej by label. Follow up was F WTC. Band lives in C-Squat...

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#99
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love a new solution that wasn't "break the CD data into pieces." I've never looked inside a CUE file, but it's just text and I don't think it supports meta data, right? We need like a new CUE file to go with the FLAC, right? p.s. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40923646

Ideally, I think I'd want a singular container (of whatever sort) that has the album's audio, the music-related timing metadata (as applicable), and whatever other metadata may be appropriate (lyrics? liner note graphics? music videos? sure!). The audio should be able to be FLAC. But it should also be able to be anything else, like Vorbis or MP3 or AAC or IDK. It needs to be able to be played continuously without abe…

You are almost describing the MAME CHD format. As they have the problem that the object (hard drive, cd, dvd, etc) must be in one file. Have the ability to do differences (writable in some cases). But also compressed (compressed hunks of data). They also need that sub track data too as some systems do interesting things with that sub data. As some even hide their encryption format in the SBI fields. The CHD format is more like a container that acts like whatever media it was. Depending on what system they hook it up to. The downside is there is no concept of 'metadata' to find different things in CHD. It is up to the system it is hooked up to to interpret what that data stream is.

Re: How CD pregaps gained their hidden track superpowers

#100
post #85

I had a Rammstein ablum, that if you rewound before track 1 there was a black box audio recording of a plane crash were everyone died. It was pretty macabre. I think the CD cover was like a plane's black box if I remember correctly.

I’m not into this band but that could be related to this famous event : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_air_show_disaster

No, that's what they were named after. They released an epinomous song on their first album (Herzeleid) that played with the visual imagery of that disaster ("Rammstein - a human burns / Rammstein - the smell of meat in the air / Rammstein - a child dies / Rammstein - the sun is shining"). They apparently initially wanted to name the band Rammstein Flugschau ("Rammstein flight show") before shortening it to Rammstein. The difference in spelling was accidental but Rammstein is evocative (literally "ramming stone") so it stuck.

The album the parent mentions is Reise, Reise, which is travel themed (in a broad sense of the word), the cover being styled after a black box (being bright orange of course). The flight recording in the pregap literally comes from a black box of a plane crash so that fits.

Post reply on HN