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Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

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Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#91

Post by fouc »

throw0101b wrote: post #66
Dig1t wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were peacefully protesting, how were they criminals?

> They were peacefully protesting, how were they criminals? They were protestors until they started living on the streets, at which point they became occupiers ( CC §63(1)): * https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/protesters-build-wooden-structure-... * https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-truck-convoy-pr... * https://pressprogress.ca/photos-show-young-child-with-a-gas-... When ordered to disperse they did not, which now…

Sounds like we need some sort of Geneva Conventions around protesting, a set of rules that protestors & governments can agree on so that we differentiate between "legit protesting" vs not.

Was Occupy Wallstreet illegit?

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#92

Post by stavros »

tom_ wrote: post #85
stavros wrote: post #16

I really hate paying by credit card (I don't like asking the bank for permission to spend my own money), but it's so convenient that I can't bring myself to carry cash any more. I have a really nice small wallet that I can store a few notes in, but I need a compartment for That's literally the entire reason I pay by card nowadays, I just don't like carrying coins.

The whole point of a credit card is that you're not spending your own money!

Credit cards aren't very widespread here. When I say "credit" I mean "credit or debit", but it doesn't matter at all for this debate. If you don't exercise your right to pay cash, you'll lose it, and then it won't matter whose money it is, you won't be able to pay for anything without the bank letting you.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#93

Post by cooljacob204 »

janice1999 wrote: post #6

Governments really need to break the Visa and Mastercard Duopoly. Not mentioned in this article, but certainly related, was the Canadian governments unprecedented step to freeze hundreds of bank accounts of protestors during COVID protests using their Emergencies Act. While I couldn't be more politically removed from the protestors, using a legislative power envisioned for war like conditions to personally ruin prote…

The wiki article you linked specifically says it's for more then war like conditions.

"take extraordinary temporary measures to respond to public welfare emergencies, public order emergencies..."

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#94

Post by itake »

radicality wrote: post #55
siliconc0w wrote: post #7

Cashless is convenient but effectively amounts to automatic inflation. Not just from the merchant fees but making it easier to slowly raise prices/fees/tip %. Plus whatever % of the population is dumb enough to revolve credit and get buried in debt.

Why is it easier to raise prices/fees/tip % with cashless vs cash payments ?

cashless has higher tx costs, charged by the payment network. This puts upward pressure on prices, even for cash.

it is also much easier to spend $250.99 on a credit card than to count out 13 sheets of paper and 9 coins. People went from spending the cash in their pocket to cash in their bank account, increasing demand for products.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#95

Post by sbarre »

lupusreal wrote: post #64
Dig1t wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were peacefully protesting, how were they criminals?

[flagged]

Can you cite an example of where Canadian protests by "lefties" took over a major public road for weeks on end, and disrupted the lives of thousands of citizens, harassing them, depriving them of sleep, preventing their ability to get to/from their homes and businesses?

I can tell you're already very convinced of who was right and wrong in this and you're trying to make this a left vs right thing, but there are limits to how many problems you can cause when you protest - no matter the cause - before civil society (via it's police force and/or government) says "ok, that's enough".

Either that, or civil society sides with you, and then major change happens.

And I guess no one wanted to side with the COVID-denying racists.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#96

Post by stavros »

rustcleaner wrote: post #87
stavros wrote: post #16

I really hate paying by credit card (I don't like asking the bank for permission to spend my own money), but it's so convenient that I can't bring myself to carry cash any more. I have a really nice small wallet that I can store a few notes in, but I need a compartment for That's literally the entire reason I pay by card nowadays, I just don't like carrying coins.

I hate paying by card because the bank sells all my transaction details to Oracle's pals. I go through an ATM every time I intend to spend cash. 2024 goals: disable and remove telematics and lender lo-jack units from soon-to-be paid off vehicle (I have VAG-COM and VCDS for it), find a pot shop which either accepts a pseudonym in their system or just doesn't use SaaS CRM hackable garbage like Meadows (goodbye TS/SCI i…

My car doesn't have telematics, but I saw my sister's car's app reporting all her trips to Toyota and I'm going to disable it first thing when I get a new car.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#97

Post by gary_0 »

pelorat wrote: post #67

> Payments Canada, found that a majority of respondents were worried about the prospect of cashless stores and want to maintain the option to use cash — which is free from bank fees I mean, that is the problem right there. We don't generally have that problem in Europe because we don't rely on credit cards. Here's there no extra fee for using Apple Pay or Google Wallet. Pay with cash, your card, NFC... it's all the s…

There's a debit card system in Canada called Interac that should be free, but depending on the bank and account type, the bank will give you a very limited number of transactions per month (like 10 or 20). After that, every time you use your card you get charged a significant fee.

Canadians get ridiculously nickel-and-dimed by banks, telecoms, retail, etc, compared to most other countries, which is part of why our cost of living is ridiculously high.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#98

Post by sbarre »

adamiscool8 wrote: post #90
nick_ wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were blowing freight truck horns at all hours of the day and night. Tens of thousands of people's lives and sleep were disrupted for weeks on end. 90% of the stuff they were protesting literally wasn't real. Obviously there is a fine line between legitimate, legal protest and it should be taken very seriously. IMO that particular protest pushed that line too hard.

The stuff they were protesting was very real, and those measures specifically caused disruption to hundreds of thousands of people's lives and sleep for months on end. The government turning to wartime measures so that privileged Ottawans living in some of the most affluent areas around the nation's capital can withstand a few honks for a few weeks is absolutely preposterous.

Lol do you actually live in Ottawa?

Calling downtown near the Parliament buildings "the most affluent areas around the nation's capital" is pretty hilarious.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#99

Post by adamiscool8 »

ryandrake wrote: post #84
adamiscool8 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their actions were Charter-protected freedom of expression and the freeze was a Charter-breaching unreasonable seizure. >Justice Mosley ruled that “the decision to issue the Proclamation does not bear the hallmarks of reasonableness – justification, transparency and intelligibility – and was not justified in relation to the relevant factual and legal constraints that were required to be taken into consideration” [0]…

I wasn't commenting on the legality of the asset freeze. I was responding to OP's attributing it to "if you decide to hold political opinions that are not in line with the ruling elite." As far as I'm aware, they did not survey the population and then take action against people with the wrong opinions.

A distinction without a difference. The ruling elite doesn't have to survey the population. They sandbagged the population into alignment with their own opinions, then strong-armed holdouts and specifically targeted them along every possible vector (social, legal, economic, etc.) for their adherence to wrong beliefs. I shudder at how much worse this could get in a fully cashless society.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#100

Post by CamperBob2 »

lupusreal wrote: post #64
Dig1t wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were peacefully protesting, how were they criminals?

[flagged]

Sleep deprivation is torture under the Geneva Convention. It's rightfully considered a war crime.

You don't get to do that to other people. Not in my idea of a civil society.

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