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Fast Crimes at Lambda School

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Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#91

Post by jph00 »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #88

I don't understand the controversy. Sure, you might not like ISAs, but that's not the point. You signed an agreement. The agreement itself is not illegal. If you don't like it, why did you sign it? Like, what's the expectation here? That you should be able to get a coding education for free? Even if you got a job unrelated to programming, how does that excuse you from needing to pay for tuition for courses you alread…

In the article it's shown that the CEO stated that you only have to pay if you make $50k+ as a software engineer.

According to the article, they have not had court victories to support their claims.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#92

Post by jseliger »

vasco wrote: post #46
duxup wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The frustration factor is a big deal. I took a bootcamp. One day and another student and I were working on something and a third member of our group (who had other issues) was really frustrated and took it out on us and then went to the teacher. She told the teacher "they just get it and I don't". But in truth the other student and I were not "just getting it", we were failing frequently, we had made no more progress…

I know of a couple of people I really trust that tried to explain to me how they feel when they try math or programming and it's more like a physical pain almost than frustration. I always also got frustrated and always thought everyone just has to push through it but I wonder if there's something deeper. Those two people really led me to believe some of us have some harder "blockage" than others to get through, and…

I know of a couple of people I really trust that tried to explain to me how they feel when they try math or programming and it's more like a physical pain almost than frustration.

For a lot of people writing prose is like this too (https://bessstillman.substack.com/p/on-writing-or-not). Back when I taught English to college students, it felt like getting students used to creating the smallest fraction of writing possible—getting them started—was a key skill, as was trying to teach the kind of free association that leads to deeper insights. Learning to manage frustration is of vital import to many people who want or need to learn to write better.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#93

Post by golergka »

My girlfriend leads a placement department at AI bootcamp, helps graduates find jobs. Some of them are over 50, they're often from completely unrelated industries with zero coding experience. It takes a lot of effort, interviews, and unpaid internships as well — so I really fail to understand why Lambda School's internship program got this enormous amount of backlash. But in the end people who persevere and go through the grind usually land the jobs, and I think that on average the bootcamp pays off.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#94

Post by ganoushoreilly »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #88

I don't understand the controversy. Sure, you might not like ISAs, but that's not the point. You signed an agreement. The agreement itself is not illegal. If you don't like it, why did you sign it? Like, what's the expectation here? That you should be able to get a coding education for free? Even if you got a job unrelated to programming, how does that excuse you from needing to pay for tuition for courses you alread…

I think you can also make an argument that data provided to entice you into the loan turned out to be misrepresented at best, or a full out lie at worst.

I do agree with accountability on debts you sign up for, including student loans.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#95

Post by lopkeny12ko »

jph00 wrote: post #91
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #88

I don't understand the controversy. Sure, you might not like ISAs, but that's not the point. You signed an agreement. The agreement itself is not illegal. If you don't like it, why did you sign it? Like, what's the expectation here? That you should be able to get a coding education for free? Even if you got a job unrelated to programming, how does that excuse you from needing to pay for tuition for courses you alread…

In the article it's shown that the CEO stated that you only have to pay if you make $50k+ as a software engineer. According to the article, they have not had court victories to support their claims.

When I was doing my undergrad, the university published statistics saying something to the tune of "the average engineering graduate goes on to earn a $60k salary at their first job."

If only I knew at the time I could have simply taken the university to court because my starting salary out of school was $55k.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#96

Post by zenlikethat »

michaelrpeskin wrote: post #50
duxup wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The frustration factor is a big deal. I took a bootcamp. One day and another student and I were working on something and a third member of our group (who had other issues) was really frustrated and took it out on us and then went to the teacher. She told the teacher "they just get it and I don't". But in truth the other student and I were not "just getting it", we were failing frequently, we had made no more progress…

I was just talking about this idea with my wife. We're both now senior enough in our jobs that we're team/project leads (not managers, just technical leaders of stuff). One of the projects I'm leading is a small R&D effort to see if a new technique will improve one of our core algorithms. And I have a very bright new junior programmer who has been with the company about 2 years and has a little post-college experienc…

Depends, I've come across plenty of people who act like what you say there, probably because it's a variant on the natural human tendency to cast blame on something besides ourselves, but... these days, things move so fast and we lean on so many amateur part-time projects, that bugs or shortcomings in the libraries etc. we use are not uncommon. The fine art is partially in knowing when it's extremely unlikely you hit a bug (gcc), vs. very likely (JS library with five stars on Github).

But more importantly, in digging in -- to me, that's a big part that's missing in leveling up the next generation -- like hey, there's a stack trace, let's go look at the lines of code in our source libraries and think about them instead of flailing around randomly like most people seem to.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#97

Post by afavour »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #88

I don't understand the controversy. Sure, you might not like ISAs, but that's not the point. You signed an agreement. The agreement itself is not illegal. If you don't like it, why did you sign it? Like, what's the expectation here? That you should be able to get a coding education for free? Even if you got a job unrelated to programming, how does that excuse you from needing to pay for tuition for courses you alread…

Weren’t they vastly misselling their success rate? They said sign this agreement, we offer 9X% rate of success! Then it turned out to not be the case. TFA:

> Most students weren't hired. What little money the school made came from quietly reselling student debt to hedge funds.

Legally sound, probably? Morally unsound, definitely.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#98

Post by sangnoir »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #88

I don't understand the controversy. Sure, you might not like ISAs, but that's not the point. You signed an agreement. The agreement itself is not illegal. If you don't like it, why did you sign it? Like, what's the expectation here? That you should be able to get a coding education for free? Even if you got a job unrelated to programming, how does that excuse you from needing to pay for tuition for courses you alread…

Implicit in your first 2 sentences is the assumption that anything legal can't or shouldn't be controversial. I vehemently disagree with that idea.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#99

Post by Spivak »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #88

I don't understand the controversy. Sure, you might not like ISAs, but that's not the point. You signed an agreement. The agreement itself is not illegal. If you don't like it, why did you sign it? Like, what's the expectation here? That you should be able to get a coding education for free? Even if you got a job unrelated to programming, how does that excuse you from needing to pay for tuition for courses you alread…

Because the agreement way pay if-and-only-if you get a job as a software developer making >$50k annual salary.

They went after people not meeting the conditions. Simple as that.

Re: Fast Crimes at Lambda School

#100

Post by Spivak »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #95
jph00 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article it's shown that the CEO stated that you only have to pay if you make $50k+ as a software engineer. According to the article, they have not had court victories to support their claims.

When I was doing my undergrad, the university published statistics saying something to the tune of "the average engineering graduate goes on to earn a $60k salary at their first job." If only I knew at the time I could have simply taken the university to court because my starting salary out of school was $55k.

If paying your student loans was contingent on you making $60k, you made $55k, and they came knocking at your door demanding money yes I do think you have grounds to sue and not pay them.

I don't care one iota about the legal minutiae that says they're technically allowed to collect, it is blatantly obvious what the students thought they were signing and so it's really hard to argue "no actually they agreed to ." If you present paperwork that you say is the legalese version of the agreement you discussed, have the other party sign it on that basis, and then it isn't that is the lowest hanging fruit of contracts that should be thrown out.

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