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EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#91

Post by RandomLensman »

palata wrote: post #69
mytailorisrich wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not possible to achieve socialism without authoritarianism because that's the only way to enforce social ownership of the means of production against private ownership... Edit: There is no meaningul difference between socialism and communism, especially on this aspect (ownership of means of production), which is key to conclude that the system must be authoritarian. " According to The Oxford Handbook of Karl Mar…

That's just because you don't understand what "socialism" means. Maybe you meant communism? It would still be debatable, but not completely wrong.

What is wrong about the means of production being under social ownership in socialism? Yes, socialism allows also some private property and there is spectrum of how much it is a planned economy but social ownership of the means of production is a central component of socialism.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#92

Post by idle_zealot »

everyone wrote: post #82

I'm not specifically talking about tfa, but I defo feel less enthused about net neutrality and such these days.. For a few reasons. 1. Internet is bad now In the 80's a new and truly utopian vision of personal computers, the internet, the web, was actually realised. But since then it's been taken over by monster corporations, the net has simply gone through the same process as systems before it (telegraph, telephone,…

It's not one or the other. No fundamental law states that the internet must be controlled by either powerful corporations or powerful governments. If governments did their job and enforced anti-trust and other consumer protection laws then neither would be the case.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#93

Post by rvnx »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #70
sakex wrote: post #65

Another day I'm happy my country (Switzerland) respects its citizens wishes to not join EU

What's Switzerland's stance on this (message scanning)? From what I have seen this entire topic keeps coming up in the US, the UK and some European countries and is just impossible to keep dead, because some citizens are strongly lobbying in favor of it.

The Swiss don't need this law because they have their own tradition of informing on each other.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#94

Post by faku312 »

palata wrote: post #71
abc123abc123 wrote: post #5

[flagged]

Please, would people in the US mind learning the meaning of "socialism"? Then talking about the far right in the EU... the US has nothing to brag about. You guys don't have a left side at all: it's right vs far right there.

[flagged]

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#95

Post by CalRobert »

thefz wrote: post #6

https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-... Let your voice be heard! Contact your representatives (bottom of the page)!

That website is a mess. I'm in the Netherlands.

I started here:

https://op.europa.eu/en/web/who-is-who/organization/-/organi...

Then checked Netherlands under sublevels and wound up here:

https://op.europa.eu/en/web/who-is-who/organization/-/organi...

and that seems to have the email address bre@minbuza.nl ?

and finally I end up at https://www.netherlandsandyou.nl/web/pr-eu-brussels which has no contact info.

I'll try that email address anyway.

I guess this is who I contact? https://www.netherlandsandyou.nl/web/pr-eu-brussels

edit:

Well apparently NL is clear in opposing it but I am a citizen of Ireland (it's not really clear who my representation is in that case) so will try them...

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#96

Post by wasmitnetzen »

The "EU" is not "greenlighting" that proposal this week. The Council of the EU will vote on their negotiation stance, which is merely one step in the legislative process, after which the Commission (which is pro-scanning) and the parliament (which is broadly against it) will get involved.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#97

Post by xalava »

Dear HNautes,

Politicians in Europe generally do not appreciate mass, repetitive emailing. It might even have an adversarial effect.

If you want to be helpful, please consider more strategic alternatives such raising awareness among the general public, writing thoughtful arguments, or joining specialized non-profits or political parties.

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#98

Post by largelady97 »

tomalbrc wrote: post #16
abc123abc123 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for the masses. They cannot be bothered and most likely don't care until it is too late. For the technologist, it is easy to circumvent in the private sphere of life at least. I foresee however, a digital ID that will be tied to all your essential services, that you will be required to have in order to live, and that's the tracking and communication point that will be used to get a hold of you. Kind of like the c…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#99

Post by CalRobert »

ben_w wrote: post #73
abc123abc123 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for the masses. They cannot be bothered and most likely don't care until it is too late. For the technologist, it is easy to circumvent in the private sphere of life at least. I foresee however, a digital ID that will be tied to all your essential services, that you will be required to have in order to live, and that's the tracking and communication point that will be used to get a hold of you. Kind of like the c…

> but in the EU of tomorrow, your digital EU idea will be the choking point. Do something out of line, and it can be revoked and with it, your bank, credit cards, health care, travel and other services. I won't say that future will never happen only because "never" is a long time, but that's not happening in the foreseeable future. I'm in Germany right now, and theoretically my ID card can be used online. In practice…

The future is here in the Netherlands though. Your driver's licence is tapped to your phone so your banking app can read it via NFC, etc. - would not be surprised if other apps require the same (after all, we need to vet who is on social media - it could be kids!)

Re: EU Council to Vote on Chat Scanning Proposal on Thursday

#100

Post by teekert »

"Only non-commercial services that are not ad-funded, such as many open source software, are out of scope"

So, what's the use of this law anyway?

I do wonder what open source means though. Is Signal opensource? The client is, the server is not... Matrix is fully open source... And Whatsapp (which my country runs on) which has open source encryption...?

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