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Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

threema.ch

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Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#91

Post by bratwurst3000 »

blowski wrote: post #28

I too instinctively bristle at this kind of legislation. It's likely to be abused, with many false positive that make it more effective at sweeping up innocent people, while the guilty just find workarounds. But all coming on here and saying "ooohh, this is bad, innit!" is not very interesting, and unlikely to prevent it. Why is the EU doing this? Which political groups are supporting and opposing it? Why now? How ar…

They already found out that it is a lobby organization that pushes it for those who sell the products for surveillance. Please google it I am to lazy to search for it. Sorry

Edit: here it is

https://netzpolitik.org/2022/dude-wheres-my-privacy-how-a-ho...

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#92

Post by Grayskull »

wickedsickeune wrote: post #29
darby_nine wrote: post #3

I find it somewhat disturbing that this sort of thing is not considered a career killer for politicians.

In Greece, we recently elected as representatives for the EU Parliament: * a 71 year old lady, with no social media and no public speeches ever. * a guy who used a nickname for his last name, that matched with a military general (who is well known), and many people thought he was the general * a "journalist" that was caught twice talking on live TV, conversing with a pre-recorded video * a convicted criminal It's imp…

This reminds of https://www.politico.eu/article/23-kookiest-meps-european-pa...

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#93

Post by hoseja »

gravescale wrote: post #45
darby_nine wrote: post #3

I find it somewhat disturbing that this sort of thing is not considered a career killer for politicians.

My pet made-up theory is that careers aren't really killable like that any more, since Cambridge Analytica. Before CA, the received wisdom was that if you do something bad, you will need to resign before you are pushed for causing damage to the organisation reputation and therefore electability. This was perhaps borne out with enormous error bars by focus groups and polls asking "would you still vote for X in case of…

We have to make the more traditional methods popular again.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#94

Post by kbrkbr »

lukan wrote: post #26
Semaphor wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost nothing is. Local politicians fail upwards to the EU (at least in Germany) or some private job, if they fail at all. Most of the time, you can do what you want, and the voters don’t care.

"and the voters don’t care." Then why did so many vote extremist anti EU? There just has been EU election in germany and the nationalist gained a lot. And none of the big parties otherwise said a clear no to that, so what could I do, except vote a small party against that, but too small to really do something? Voters care. But they see often no point in voting anymore.

> There just has been EU election in germany and the nationalist gained a lot.

That really depends on your point of comparison. Compared to their 22% high in February, they lost a lot with 16% actual votes (more than 25% down). 84% voted something else.

https://interaktiv.tagesspiegel.de/lab/europawahl-2024-sonnt...

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#95

Post by saurik »

anonzzzies wrote: post #47

There are exemptions in the document and this article also talks about it; it would be good to know what tools we can use (p2p chat etc) that are exempt from this. I guess most people will blindly accept and won't care, but at least people can move if they do care (and possibly convince others).

I would think a peer-to-peer system would not be exempt from this legislation, particularly given my understanding that the EU courts do not look favorably on gotcha-style analysis of laws that are limited to definitions of words used being twisted to claim "I'm unregulated". If you are a developer who works on a chat client as part of a decentralized service, I'd expect both you and all of the people running the network to suddenly become service providers subject to this law.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#96

Post by iknowstuff »

simianparrot wrote: post #57
ricardobeat wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All things considered I think that’s a strong yes. Open borders, free trade, technological collaboration, and shared health, industry and consumer regulations help accelerate economic development. Can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

First two have been utter disasters however, and are directly affecting people on a daily basis now. Here in Scandinavia it’s coming to a head but it’s a similar story further south, in Germany in particular.

[flagged]

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#98

Post by cl3misch »

neugiergiraffe wrote: post #58

Can someone explain to me why, over time, democratic states tend to drift into mass surveillance ? Is it beacuse a lot of people feel unsafe or is it because the people supposed to ensure our security see it as the "easiest" or most effective way to do their job? Is there so much benefit to having a fuctioning mass surveilance apparatus, and if yes, who benefits of it if not the people for whom these rules for in the…

> democratic states tend to drift into mass surveillance

I am not saying this is false, but think about the inverse: are there non-democratic states never drifting into mass surveillance? Maybe it is a symptom of a developed, high-trust society.

Which doesn't make mass surveillance a good thing. I'm just contemplating whether it's even possible to turn out different.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#99

Post by iknowstuff »

gillesjacobs wrote: post #48
Tuna-Fish wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's precisely the thing. Whenever EU does something people don't like, they hate EU, not the council members who voted for it.

Because it is exactly the EU governance that lacks democratic representation, enabling unfavoured politicians to remain in significant power. You can only elect MEPs (via party lists) locally. The majority of legalislation is drafted by the technocratic European Commission and legislation is mostly passed through parlaiment unchanged from there. There are many nationally disgraced politicians seating in the EP, EC or…

How is voting different from other federal states? EP frequently alters EC proposals. Council consists of heads of state, commission is appointed by council and parliament, and the parliament is directly elected.

Not terribly different from how prime ministers ate appointed.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#100

Post by anonzzzies »

saurik wrote: post #95
anonzzzies wrote: post #47

There are exemptions in the document and this article also talks about it; it would be good to know what tools we can use (p2p chat etc) that are exempt from this. I guess most people will blindly accept and won't care, but at least people can move if they do care (and possibly convince others).

I would think a peer-to-peer system would not be exempt from this legislation, particularly given my understanding that the EU courts do not look favorably on gotcha-style analysis of laws that are limited to definitions of words used being twisted to claim "I'm unregulated". If you are a developer who works on a chat client as part of a decentralized service, I'd expect both you and all of the people running the net…

There was a discussion about Matrix here;

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40713065

But it seems (as always) not easy to determine.

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