React 19 Breaks Async Composability • Hacker News Board

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#91

Post by azemetre » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 3:11 PM UTC

dudus wrote: post #89

meiraleal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure yet if I'm happy or sad with Vercel's destruction of React. After 10 years of React, I think imploding it from inside was the only way React could lose its lead. They achieved it! Even tho we don't have a clear alternative yet.

Svelte and solid are nice alternatives.

Since Vercel is doing this to React why would we think they wouldn’t also do this to Svelte?

Maybe I should check out Vue again, there’s something to be said about open source libraries that succeed without corporate ownership.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#92

Post by shepherdjerred » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 3:16 PM UTC

Varriount wrote: post #51

mrkeen wrote: post #24

> when navigating to a new screen, it's better to show a loading state as soon as you can (often a skeleton UI), rather than delay the transition. In a better language, this would be the programmers choice on a case-by-case basis, with no need for the higher-ups to break or fix everyone's behaviour at once. Either return a Page(Future(Components)) or a Future(Page(Components)).

Or better yet, just... Navigate to a new (real) web page? Maybe passing some state via URL parameters? At least then the back button has a reasonable chance of working correctly.

It's not hard to get perfect back button behavior with SPAs. You just have to care enough to do it _and_ have written code decent enough that it can be shimmed in.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#93

Post by shepherdjerred » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 3:17 PM UTC

sensanaty wrote: post #70

As a React dev at $DAYJOB, how React remains at the top despite the existence of infinitely better alternatives like Vue or Svelte will forever be baffling to me

What do you like about Vue? I use Vue at work and yearn for React (though, I haven't written much React since the shift to hooks).

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#94

Post by yencabulator » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 3:28 PM UTC

azemetre wrote: post #91

dudus wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Svelte and solid are nice alternatives.

Since Vercel is doing this to React why would we think they wouldn’t also do this to Svelte? Maybe I should check out Vue again, there’s something to be said about open source libraries that succeed without corporate ownership.

Svelte has a seamless SSR framework called SvelteKit that is platform-agnostic and made by the same people who make Svelte in the first place.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#95

Post by azemetre » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 3:47 PM UTC

yencabulator wrote: post #94

azemetre wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Vercel is doing this to React why would we think they wouldn’t also do this to Svelte? Maybe I should check out Vue again, there’s something to be said about open source libraries that succeed without corporate ownership.

Svelte has a seamless SSR framework called SvelteKit that is platform-agnostic and made by the same people who make Svelte in the first place.

Yes but the issue is that Vercel has all the core Svelte maintainers on their payroll too. My Q is why would we expect Vercel to not interject as well? I mean we have evidence they did this in one community library, why not another? That is the risk.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#96

Post by yencabulator » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 3:52 PM UTC

azemetre wrote: post #95

yencabulator wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Svelte has a seamless SSR framework called SvelteKit that is platform-agnostic and made by the same people who make Svelte in the first place.

Yes but the issue is that Vercel has all the core Svelte maintainers on their payroll too. My Q is why would we expect Vercel to not interject as well? I mean we have evidence they did this in one community library, why not another? That is the risk.

Svelte has a pretty prominent BDFL, having to corrupt him first might be enough.

Personally, I think the moment SvelteKit stops working on plain container images & Cloudflare Workers is the moment Svelte dies.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#97

Post by thibaut_barrere » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 4:15 PM UTC

motogpjimbo wrote: post #87

thibaut_barrere wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The backward incompatibility story https://www.php.net/manual/en/migration70.incompatible.php is not empty

In 10+ years of professional PHP development, the only time I've ever had to fix a codebase while updating the PHP version was when mcrypt was deprecated, and it was only around half an hour of work to replace it with a modern equivalent, including the time to re-encrypt the data. Meanwhile, I've had the misfortune of inheriting a React application that would no longer build a mere six months after the original devel…

Not contesting anything related to churn and JavaScript, my experience has been similar.

Glad to hear those changes did not impact you re PHP

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#98

Post by pragmatic » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 4:21 PM UTC

anonzzzies wrote: post #26

Terrible shitshow. Web dev is all broken and horrible. Well at least the popular stuff is. No idea why anyone uses this outside resume building.

There’s hope.

Vanilla js with type annotations via jsdoc and a build less setup works amazingly well now.

I’m rebuilding our companies data viz with this set up as the “glue” between apis and charts.

Throw in web components and for some use cases I think you really don’t need react, etc.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#99

Post by meiraleal » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 4:46 PM UTC

dudus wrote: post #89

meiraleal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure yet if I'm happy or sad with Vercel's destruction of React. After 10 years of React, I think imploding it from inside was the only way React could lose its lead. They achieved it! Even tho we don't have a clear alternative yet.

Svelte and solid are nice alternatives.

I tried svelte but it is not it too. I'm happy with Lit tho, have no plans to change with all the Web Components interop. With React 19 I can ship most components in Lit and create a React shell and everybody is happy, me and my customers.

Re: React 19 Breaks Async Composability

#100

Post by rich_harris » Fri, Jun 14, 2024, 4:49 PM UTC

yencabulator wrote: post #96

azemetre wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but the issue is that Vercel has all the core Svelte maintainers on their payroll too. My Q is why would we expect Vercel to not interject as well? I mean we have evidence they did this in one community library, why not another? That is the risk.

Svelte has a pretty prominent BDFL, having to corrupt him first might be enough. Personally, I think the moment SvelteKit stops working on plain container images & Cloudflare Workers is the moment Svelte dies.

This simply isn't going to happen.