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Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

security.apple.com

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Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#91

Post by astrange »

zie wrote: post #60
throwaway369 wrote: post #54

[Deleted]

Well the options from China's perspective is: Come to the table and meet some/all of our demands or stop doing business here. Since Apple devices are now on the Chinese Governments poopy list, I assume Apple is only meeting some, not all of China's demands. I assume if Apple did everything the Chinese govt wanted, they wouldn't be on the poopy list. Personally I see being on the Chinese govt poopy list as an endorsem…

It's a silly oversimplification that nothing in China is ever allowed to have privacy ever. China has privacy/data protection laws just like other countries do. Even an authoritarian government doesn't want other random private actors getting to see everything.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#92

Post by throwaway41597 »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #36

What I'm most curious about here is if a state actor comes to Apple with a subpoena and compels them to release information on an individual, what would Apple be able to release? ... I suppose this is ultimately a question that will be tested sooner or later in the US.

I'm very curious as well because my very limited understanding tells me the answer is nothing. The relay hides your identity. Your phone checks the attestations so it won't send your data to servers not running the published software which ensures encryption keys are ephemeral. Once your session is done, the keys are deleted.

Law enforcement would need to seize the right server among millions while it's processing your request and perform an attack on it to get the keys before they're gone.

My next question is what happens if/when the attestation keys are stolen.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#93

Post by unshavedyak »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #79
loteck wrote: post #23

Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...

If he really wanted no one to be reading his tweets he’d be using BluSky or Masto…

Is there more to that thread? I can't read it if it exists, not sure if that is what the parent is talking about? But i don't have a Twitter account anymore, so maybe it's locked?

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#94

Post by onesociety2022 »

bayareabadboy wrote: post #43

What are the longer term implications that Apple is doing this on their own hardware and not Nvidia? This seems like a big thing to me, an idiot.

But this is just inference. What did they use to train their foundation models?

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#95

Post by onesociety2022 »

ricardobeat wrote: post #45
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #36

What I'm most curious about here is if a state actor comes to Apple with a subpoena and compels them to release information on an individual, what would Apple be able to release? ... I suppose this is ultimately a question that will be tested sooner or later in the US.

Unless their statements regarding the design of these systems are blatantly false, or they are forced to add data collectors on purpose to target individuals, the answer is close to nothing . You can opt into full E2E encryption [1] which makes it nothing , presumably at the cost of some convenience features. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/108756

PCC exists because full E2E is not feasible for these use cases. The LLM has to take your personal data (context window and prompt) to process it.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#96

Post by unshavedyak »

tantalor wrote: post #80
loteck wrote: post #23

Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...

> nobody can read his tweets without a X account False; works fine for me logged out or incognito..

Also can't see the thread.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#97

Post by afh1 »

tantalor wrote: post #82
ein0p wrote: post #78

It is not possible for this to be fully private in the United States because the government not only can force Apple to open up the kimono, it can also forbid it to talk about it. There’s not really anything Apple can do to work around this “limitation”. Thank your “representative” for extending the PATRIOT Act when you get a chance.

Warrant canary

Apple removed theirs year ago.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#98

Post by afh1 »

sciolist wrote: post #88
ein0p wrote: post #78

It is not possible for this to be fully private in the United States because the government not only can force Apple to open up the kimono, it can also forbid it to talk about it. There’s not really anything Apple can do to work around this “limitation”. Thank your “representative” for extending the PATRIOT Act when you get a chance.

There's a difference between guaranteed privacy and certifiable privacy. Yes, the government can request one's data. However, Apple's system would reveal those intrusions to the public, even if Apple themselves couldn't say it.

How?

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#99

Post by rmm »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #79
loteck wrote: post #23

Some good comments on this from cryptographer Matt Green here: https://x.com/matthew_d_green/status/1800291897245835616?t=C... (I wonder if Matt realizes nobody can read his tweets without a X account? Use BlueSky or Masto man) Edit: here's his thread combined https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1800291897245835616.html?...

If he really wanted no one to be reading his tweets he’d be using BluSky or Masto…

Ok that made me spill my coffee.

Re: Private Cloud Compute: A new frontier for AI privacy in the cloud

#100

Post by qingcharles »

unshavedyak wrote: post #93
BenFranklin100 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he really wanted no one to be reading his tweets he’d be using BluSky or Masto…

Is there more to that thread? I can't read it if it exists, not sure if that is what the parent is talking about? But i don't have a Twitter account anymore, so maybe it's locked?

I don't know what you're seeing. It's a very long thread. Exceptionally good take on the whole thing. Apple has gone way out of their way to try and sell this thing. Above and beyond compared to how I imagine Microsoft or Google would have tackled this.
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