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The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

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Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#91

Post by cool_dude85 »

tedivm wrote: post #80
smeej wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

This just isn't true. The burden on nuclear is the extremely long construction time and massive cost overruns.

Right, seems kind of silly to me as a utility guy. We have this nuclear plant that we don't want to use as baseload for some reason even though operating it is way cheaper than every other plant we have. Rather dump the electricity into mining bitcoin and expose the utility to those financial risks.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#92

Post by CTDOCodebases »

jefftk wrote: post #84
smeej wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

> equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand Interesting that people are doing this! When I was thinking about this ~10y ago [1] the economics didn't work out because of how quickly the ASICs depreciated, but they've probably stopped getting better quickly by now? [1] https://www.jefftk.com/p/balancing-the-grid-with-bitcoin

If you find that interesting there are also mining bitcoin with gas that normally just gets burnt off at oil wells, rubbish dumps etc.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#93

Post by maxerickson »

XorNot wrote: post #79
esalman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely there are more useful avenues for harnessing excess energy than mining Bitcoins?

I mean this is where pumped hydro would be pretty handy actually. Pumped hydro can't charge as fast as batteries, but can have enormous energy capacity. You could almost certainly tune a pumped hydro installation to absorb the ramp of a reactor cycling up and down, but you'd lose the risk of running dry due to renewable unpredictability.

Pumped storage can absorb power faster than any built battery array. It can't switch between storing and providing as quickly.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#94

Post by aorloff »

tedivm wrote: post #80
smeej wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

This just isn't true. The burden on nuclear is the extremely long construction time and massive cost overruns.

Which is why we should be running them at high capacity when they are operational and storing the extra juice

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#96

Post by necheffa »

smeej wrote: post #73
rconti wrote: post #57

It looks like during last year's heat wave, California FINALLY broke its previous all-time peak load of 50,270mW in 24 July 2006, with a whopping 52,061mW on 6 September 2023. Still, peak usage year over year looks flat to my eyes. I'm sure we can't keep time-shifting and efficiency engineering ourselves out of a fundamental need for more total energy for a huge % of EVs and the push to phase out natural gas, but it…

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

> one of its biggest hurdles is that it can't adjust up and down for demand very well

This is a historic limitation. We have the technology to perform load follow with the legacy fleet. Most utilities just designed their fleets around the assumption that nuclear would be base load and therefore are less incentivized to operate their nuclear reactors this way.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#97

Post by infecto »

CTDOCodebases wrote: post #92
jefftk wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand Interesting that people are doing this! When I was thinking about this ~10y ago [1] the economics didn't work out because of how quickly the ASICs depreciated, but they've probably stopped getting better quickly by now? [1] https://www.jefftk.com/p/balancing-the-grid-with-bitcoin

If you find that interesting there are also mining bitcoin with gas that normally just gets burnt off at oil wells, rubbish dumps etc.

I dislike bitcoin but this one definitely makes the most sense.

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#98

Post by worik »

tedivm wrote: post #80
smeej wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from wh…

This just isn't true. The burden on nuclear is the extremely long construction time and massive cost overruns.

> The burden on nuclear is the extremely long construction time and massive cost overruns.

Yes, and:

* Risk of catastrophic failure

* Long term waste which there is no technology capable of handling

* Decommissioning

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#99

Post by worik »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #91
tedivm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just isn't true. The burden on nuclear is the extremely long construction time and massive cost overruns.

Right, seems kind of silly to me as a utility guy. We have this nuclear plant that we don't want to use as baseload for some reason even though operating it is way cheaper than every other plant we have. Rather dump the electricity into mining bitcoin and expose the utility to those financial risks.

> even though operating it is way cheaper than every other plant we have

No. It is not. More expensive than anything else we can imagine

Re: The aging U.S. power grid is about to get a jolt

#100

Post by BenjiWiebe »

callalex wrote: post #53
mnw21cam wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, next time there's a heatwave and everyone cranks up their aircon, the system will still collapse.

(Warning this is a tangent). Cooling/air conditioning actually uses a relatively small amount of energy compared to heating. As we transition away from fossil fuels for heating over to electricity the real existential crisis will happen in cold periods. This can be understood intuitively: air conditioning is used when it’s 85° outside to make it 70° inside. Heating is regularly used to make it 65° inside when it is 2…

At least it's easy to turn sunlight into heat, so that may help somewhat. Absorb sun during the day and release it during the night.

The coldest nights tend to be clear (clouds reflect IR back to the earth).

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