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Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

digilent.com

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Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#91
post #2

Can someone explain the last paragraph? The author gives the example of trying to find a 70 Ohm resistor and how the 68 Ohm and 75 Ohm are a little off. They conclude by saying you should just use 33 and 47 Ohm resistors, but wouldn't that give an resistance of 80, not 70?

You are correct. Two of the comments on the article itself also mention this error.

Brilliant, informative writing, and yet people will jump to nit-pick the arithmetic.

I'd better spell-check this comment before clicking reply...

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#92
post #53
post #35

Why don't resistors show their power rating on the package, always? Or at least more often.

Because there's basically no design downside to having a higher power rating than needed, aside from BOM cost. If you're ordering a bunch to have on hand, you should just order the highest power rating you're likely to need in that size. For me, that means that my 0402s are all 1/16W, 0805 are 1/8W, 1206 1/4W, etc. And all of my through-hole resistors are 1/4, because the wire stock plays well with breadboards better…

I'd be surprised to find a 1/4W 0402, you'd just about melt the solder off. Yageo claims this one is good to 3W, do you think it glows cherry red? What trace width and pad geometry do you need to push 3W into a 0.0025 ohm resistor?

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/yageo/PA0402CRF5P...

But to your point, Digikey has >70,000 0402s in 1/16W. There are 900 rated for 0.05W, and they're all exotic high-frequency/low temp coefficient/high-precision specialty parts.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#93
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a mostly-digital electronics guy, I think 0.1, 1, 10, 100, 1k, 10k, 100k, 1M and 10M is a perfectly fine series for pretty much any usecase. Sense resistor? 0.1 ohm. Resistor for an LED: 100 ohm Pull up resistor: 10k Bias resistor for some mosfet gate: 10M Voltage divider to measure the battery voltage with an ADC: two 100k resistors. It's super rare I need anything else. I hate fiddling about with switching th…

Have you tried 10 kΩ for LED and FET pull down? 100 Ω sounds like way too much current for modern LEDs. I often end up using 100 kΩ especially for green LEDs. They are very visible under indoor lighting even with 1 MΩ and 3.3 V supply. For pulling down FETs, you want something in the range of 10 kΩ. 10 MΩ sounds way too high, which makes your circuit sensitive to being touched or affected by moisture, especially if t…

Are you sure all those numbers are in the right ballpark? With a 3.3V supply and a 1 MΩ resistor, the most current you can get from that circuit is in the neighborhood of 3μA, and that's ignoring the LED voltage drop. I would think the LED won't be visible until you're around the mA range. Or are some LEDs visible in the low μA range?

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#94
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there's basically no design downside to having a higher power rating than needed, aside from BOM cost. If you're ordering a bunch to have on hand, you should just order the highest power rating you're likely to need in that size. For me, that means that my 0402s are all 1/16W, 0805 are 1/8W, 1206 1/4W, etc. And all of my through-hole resistors are 1/4, because the wire stock plays well with breadboards better…

I'd be surprised to find a 1/4W 0402, you'd just about melt the solder off. Yageo claims this one is good to 3W, do you think it glows cherry red? What trace width and pad geometry do you need to push 3W into a 0.0025 ohm resistor? https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/yageo/PA0402CRF5P... But to your point, Digikey has >70,000 0402s in 1/16W. There are 900 rated for 0.05W, and they're all exotic high-frequency/…

It probably has the cutest little heat sink.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#95
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Statistically you're correct, The Central Limit Theorem (which says if we add a bunch of random numbers together they'll converge on a bell curve) only guarantees that you'll get a normal distribution. It doesn't say where the mean of the distribution will be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your resistor factory has a constant skew making all the resistances higher than their nominal value, a bunch of 6.8K + 6.8K…

> The Central Limit Theorem (which says if we add a bunch of random numbers together they'll converge on a bell curve) only guarantees that you'll get a normal distribution. It doesn't say where the mean of the distribution will be. That's kind of overstating and understating the issue at the same time. If you have a skewed distribution you might not be able to use the central limit theorem at all.

>If you have a skewed distribution you might not be able to use the central limit theorem at all.

The CLT only requires finite variance. Skew can be infinite and you still get convergence to normality ... eventually. Finite skew gives you 1/sqrt(N) convergence.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#96

This part is the thing that made me understand the numbering series: > […] Continuing this trend, rounding as needed, and we end up with the series 10, 15, 22, 33, 47, and 68. Components built to the E6 standard have a 20% relative error tolerance, and if we look at the values again we’ll see a trend. Starting with 10 again and adding 20% error we end up with 12. Moving to 15 and subtracting 20% we get… wait for it……

[dead]

Factored into the tolerance is the temperature coefficient, because the tolerance is specified over the operating range. There are also 3 basic temperature ranges: Industrial, automotive, and military. I've used this to my advantage by spec'ing automotive capacitors when I needed tighter tolerances for my normally room temperature applications.

They also laser-trim IC's.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes—although E96 is cheap, I’m still very fond of E12. You get to keep less stock. I’ll even use two resistors rather than use something outside E12, most of the time. Maybe it’s habit? Hell, I don’t even think all of E12 is necessary. I’ll stick to E6 most of the time.

Being a mostly-digital electronics guy, I think 0.1, 1, 10, 100, 1k, 10k, 100k, 1M and 10M is a perfectly fine series for pretty much any usecase. Sense resistor? 0.1 ohm. Resistor for an LED: 100 ohm Pull up resistor: 10k Bias resistor for some mosfet gate: 10M Voltage divider to measure the battery voltage with an ADC: two 100k resistors. It's super rare I need anything else. I hate fiddling about with switching th…

Resistor for an LED: 100 ohm

Yeah, that's why I can read a book by the blue LEDs on my alarm clock...

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#98
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2024, if your resistor vendor has even 5% tolerance, you need to find another vendor.

Thin-film resistor design engineer here! It's dependent on value and geometry -- if you order a 0.5 ohm resistor the meters on our trimming lasers only go down to 20 mΩ and you're getting a 5% part at best.

What about shunt resistors? I can pretty easily get a 1% 5mΩ resistor, but they don't look to me like they are constructed in the same way as a generic resistor.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#99

Wikipedia has a nice table of these values that I actually have printed out and hanging above my bench. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_series_of_preferred_numbers#... The fact of the matter is that nowadays, E96 series resistors are readily available and dirt cheap. And if you need more precision than that, you either don't know much about electronics or you know a whole lot about electronics, heh.

One fun thing to do when designing high-precision analog stuff (audio) was to choose component values that are about 1.5-2% off of a value in the E12 series. You can then go test a whole bunch of resistors and you will find a lot within 0.1% of each other (even within 0.01%). Everything within 1% of E12 is binned as a 1% resistor so those aren't polluting your stock.

Going within 0.1% of an E12 value is a pricey resistor, but resistors that are matched nearly perfectly and are 2-3% off are cheap and easy to find.

Re: Why do electronic components have such odd values? (2021)

#100
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes—although E96 is cheap, I’m still very fond of E12. You get to keep less stock. I’ll even use two resistors rather than use something outside E12, most of the time. Maybe it’s habit? Hell, I don’t even think all of E12 is necessary. I’ll stick to E6 most of the time.

How do the tolerances combine when you're using two resistors? I'm pretty sure they'd add together if in series (so two 5%'s become 10%), but I'm having trouble easily intuiting what happens if in parallel. Do they combine in the same way that resistances combine when in parallel? edit: Actually, I'm not so sure anymore that the tolerances would add up in series... I should probably just look this stuff up, since I'm…

Values (for resistors) add in series and sort of divide-average in parallel.

In either case though, the tolerance divides.

The combined tolerance becomes more accurate the more resistors there are in total, whether parallel or serial. The highs and lows, and the chances of high or low, cancel each other out and you get a final actual value that is closer to the nominal statistical center of the bell curve the more individual parts there are. (same goes for other components, just resistors are simpler to talk about because their behavior is simple.)

In series, a single 10K might really be 9K or 11K, but if you chain 10 10Ks in series, you don't get a "maybe 90K maybe 110K". That is technically possible but statistics means that what what you actually get is if there was N% chance that a given 10K is 9K or 11K, the there is 1/10th of N% chance (or less, I bet the actual equation is more complicated) that the chain of 10 is 90K or 110K. If the individual 10Ks were 10%, then you get 100K with something like 1% tolerance.

(except also in reality, there is such a thing as batches, where all the parts in a given batch are all high or low the same way, because the process was drifting a little high or low while it was cranking out thousands of them that hour. So Ideally your 10 individuals need to come from 10 different batches or even 10 different manufacturers if that were practical or in a pure math world.)

In parallel, the statistical division is the same though the value centers on the value/N rather than value*N. 10 10% 10Ks in parallel = 1 1% 1k

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