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The Forgotten History of Chinese Keyboards

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Re: The Forgotten History of Chinese Keyboards

#91
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simplified Chinese characters are already difficult enough for foreigners to learn. Making them learn traditional characters would just be sadistic.

Traditional characters is built on common parts for pronunciation and meaning cues. Simplified removed that so IMO it compresses worse and therefore harder. It's visually less dense, but, so what.

Those cues are there in exactly the same way in most simplified characters.

The cases where simplification has removed those cues are rare enough that the extra complexity of traditional characters is really not worth it.

I've never heard anyone claim that simplified characters are more difficult to learn, and it just seems false to me.

Re: The Forgotten History of Chinese Keyboards

#92
post #88
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation needs phonetic transcription to handle proper names. If there are words that may or may not be proper names depending on context, machine translation will guess the context wrong at least some of the time and phonetically transcribe what should be translated, or translate names that should be transcribed. The problem also can also happen when translating from English, if you think about all the surnames t…

It's not just proper nouns. Korean MT seem to routinely "de-synchronize" into wonbonhangugeotegseuteububun mid-sentence and sometimes comes back in sync, sometime stays out of sync until the end of the sentence. it happens way more often than average with the Korean language.

Do you have an example input where that happens?

Re: The Forgotten History of Chinese Keyboards

#93
post #62
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget all the abbreviation. "超市", supermarket, is abbreviated from "超級", super, and "市場", market. The equivalent in English would be "sup-mark" or something along those lines. (Or in Japanese, just "super".)

Since we're now talking about verbal rather than written: > No matter how fast or slow, how simple or complex, each language gravitated toward an average rate of 39.15 bits per second, they report today in Science Advances. -- https://www.science.org/content/article/human-speech-may-hav...

This tracks - it's difficult to speak at the same pace in Chinese as I can English. That said - are those 39.15 bits plaintext? Compressed? Encrypted?

The size of a word does not correlate with it's concept - I still posit that some languages can transfer concepts faster than others, minus our baud rate.

Edit: Or, perhaps I am not as gifted an English speaker as my bias has presumed :| For example, I had to lookup "syntagmatic".

Re: The Forgotten History of Chinese Keyboards

#94
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank God it didn’t happen.

pinyin is the best thing that happened to the language after simplification. Not only did it propel literacy rates to basically 100%, but it added a phonetic component to the language

Phonetics can be counterproductive to comprehension, or converting meaning to text. Take an example much closer to English: Scottish Gaelic, which is written with the Latin alphabet. It's considerably older than English, has more distinct consonants and vowels, and it is really difficult to guess the pronounciation from a written word if you only speak English (unlike Welsh, which has nice orthography and is easier than English in that respect).

Because of these difficulties, there is a long tradition of anglicising names of settlements to meaningless collections of letters which when read by an English speaker approximate vaguely to the original Gaelic name. Unfortunately this is not a reversible process - you can't look at a modern anglicised name and guess what the Gaelic is, in general.

Now while Gaelic has a tiny population of native speakers, there are millions of people who know some "map Gaelic" - that is, we can look at a map with Gaelic place names, and understand the elements. It doesn't work for towns and villages, but generally in the north, no-one bothered to anglicise the names of natural features, just the settlements - and walking is the most popular outdoor recreation in the UK, so we learn this when we read maps.

When the first SNP government of Scotland came in, they introduced bi-lingual road signs, even in areas where Gaelic is no longer spoken. There was and is complaint over this, but I found that things became much clearer. I could look at a placename like Machrihanish, and see that it is Machaire Shanais. I still don't know what Shanais means, but Machaire is a type of landscape that I know, so I immediately know that this is low-lying and grassy, and fairly level. I can do this for thousands of place names without being able to reliably tell how to pronounce the words - similar to the way that the pronounciation of a word indicated by a Chinese character can vary widely with the part of China, so that the pronounciation becomes quite secondary to communication.

Re: The Forgotten History of Chinese Keyboards

#95
post #32
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading a Wikipedia page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Metal_Colossi ) and was struck by the difference in length of the Chinese quotes and translations. E.g.: 收天下兵, 聚之咸陽, 銷以為鍾鐻金人十二, 重各千石, 置廷宮中. 一法度衡石丈尺. 車同軌. 書同文字. was translated into He collected the weapons of All-Under-Heaven in Xianyang, and cast them into twelve bronze figures of the type of bell stands, each 1000 dan [about 30 tons] in weight, an…

I just started learning Chinese about 2 months ago, to me it seems they stuff whole concepts into characters. For example, "去" (pronounced "Qú") is "going to the". "超市" (prounced "Chao Shi") is "supermarket" "去超市" (pronounced "Qú Chao Shi") is "going to the supermarket". 3 syllables vs 7 syllables. To me, it seems that instead of composing letters into words to convey meaning, they have more letters that are mini-wor…

Actually “去” is pronounced “Qù”

Re: The Forgotten History of Chinese Keyboards

#96
post #95
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just started learning Chinese about 2 months ago, to me it seems they stuff whole concepts into characters. For example, "去" (pronounced "Qú") is "going to the". "超市" (prounced "Chao Shi") is "supermarket" "去超市" (pronounced "Qú Chao Shi") is "going to the supermarket". 3 syllables vs 7 syllables. To me, it seems that instead of composing letters into words to convey meaning, they have more letters that are mini-wor…

Actually “去” is pronounced “Qù”

Thank you
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