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Kino: Pro Video Camera

lux.camera

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Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#91

Post by lxhrstn »

lxhrstn wrote: post #44

Looks very cool - but will be curious to see how the results from this end up comparing to Blackmagic's excellent (and free) pro iOS video app ( https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccamera )

The app is obviously targeting a different audience, but having bought it and recorded some test footage on it now, it has considerably fewer features than Blackmagic Cam for videography/cinematography pros - no zebras, focus peaking, stabilisation settings, anamorphic de-squeeze, etc - even commonly-expected framerates like 23.98fps / 29.97fps and settable aspect-ratios like 2.39:1 aren't available as far as I can see.

Would hope to see them address these missing features in future updates, but at the moment there's nothing here to make me move away from Blackmagic for "serious" iPhone videography.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#92

Post by dylan604 »

SamBam wrote: post #33
dylan604 wrote: post #20

"Now, it's not always possible for Kino to pick cinematic settings, such as when shooting in bright daylight." Since the phone's cameras are fixed aperture, you lose one leg of the exposure triangle. Instead, they lean heavily on the shutter speed as ISO is also a function of the chip. Increasing the shutter speed also increase the jello effect from the rolling shutter. Using an ND filter helps. If you find yourself…

> Bonus points if your sunglasses are polarized. You can rotate your sunglasses to "dial" in the effect similar to a circular polarizer. Surely that would only affect polarized light, like glare from reflections, no? Possibly that's all you're saying (I understand the general purpose of polarized lenses) but it sounded like you were suggesting you could make the whole scene darker -- and thus improve the motion blur…

> but it sounded like you were suggesting you could make the whole scene darker

Did you read over this "Bonus points if your sunglasses are polarized."? I'm not talking about regular polarized lenses in your glasses. I specifically said the world sunglasses multiple times. The entire point of sunglasses is to make the whole scene darker. I really don't know how to describe this any more plainly.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#93

Post by dagmx »

dylan604 wrote: post #74
dagmx wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitpickiest of nits: given your intended description, the quotes should be around “rule” not “8 second”. When around “rule”, that implies it’s not really a rule. When around “8 second” it implies that it’s not 8 seconds exactly or it’s what it’s colloquially called, but it would still be a rule. Regardless, the fair use laws are very loose and tend to vary depending on the medium type and association with product. An…

Do you really think that this company is implying that they made The Matrix or Dune? It is clearly just an example used to aid in the discussion of the surrounding text. There is no claim of "we used this software to make Dune". If they had, you can assume they would have put that out in some sort of call out in their marketing. If you were confused by the image as them trying to take credit, then boy, I don't know.

I don’t know why you default to being hostile.

I’m just stating that they’re intermixing it and that can play into whether it is fair use. I’m not saying that I personally am confused. I’m just saying that intermixing it may give people the wrong assumption if they’re not familiar with these films. Remember, the matrix came out 25 years ago. There’s many people who will likely never see it but will be working in film/cinema etc and use this.

I’m not ascribing malice either, just that it’s good form in the industry to delineate clearly.

Maybe take it down a few notches or step away from the keyboard.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#94

Post by nerdjon »

Is it just me or does the marketing seem to disagree with itself a bit?

On the one hand it is talking about how until the iPhone 15 Pro one of the issues is that you were stuck with whatever version of the video your iPhone decided to record, but then it is talking about how this recording app is not just recording straight log and doing its own magic? What am I missing here, arn't they doing the exact thing that they were saying was bad in the first place?

Related to that, they seem to talk about LUT's but if with this we are saying that we can use these prebaked LUT's what exactly does that get me over using prebaked LUT's in my video editor?

I am curious how this compares to BlackMagic Camera.

Also curious how this will standup when Final Cut Pro Camera launches later this year (but that is obviously only valuable if you use FCP).

For $10, I may download it and give it a shot. But I am not fully sure I am seeing the value proposition here and I feel like there has to be something I am really missing here. If it isnt targeting the pro market as some commenters are saying, then what is the point of this over the built in camera app?

For context, I do my recording on an iPhone 15 pro max so maybe this isnt targeted at me?

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#95

Post by Terretta »

SamBam wrote: post #33
dylan604 wrote: post #20

"Now, it's not always possible for Kino to pick cinematic settings, such as when shooting in bright daylight." Since the phone's cameras are fixed aperture, you lose one leg of the exposure triangle. Instead, they lean heavily on the shutter speed as ISO is also a function of the chip. Increasing the shutter speed also increase the jello effect from the rolling shutter. Using an ND filter helps. If you find yourself…

> Bonus points if your sunglasses are polarized. You can rotate your sunglasses to "dial" in the effect similar to a circular polarizer. Surely that would only affect polarized light, like glare from reflections, no? Possibly that's all you're saying (I understand the general purpose of polarized lenses) but it sounded like you were suggesting you could make the whole scene darker -- and thus improve the motion blur…

> it sounded like you were suggesting you could make the whole scene darker -- and thus improve the motion blur effect -- by rotating the lens.

That would be true if the iPhone's lens also has polarization...

https://www.seattleu.edu/scieng/physics/physics-demos/optics...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SIxEiL8ujA

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#96

Post by dghlsakjg »

Kerrick wrote: post #76
dghlsakjg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have been around successfully selling apps with this business model for a lot longer than 2 years, why do you think they plan on changing it?

FiLMiC Pro, another pro camera app for iPhone, also existed for years [0] and sold with the one-time-purchase business model. They're now a subscription [1] and owned by Bending Spoons / Evernote. (Plus, more bad news [2]...) [0]: http://web.archive.org/web/20111130073123/http://www.filmicp... [1]: https://www.cined.com/filmic-pro-is-joining-forces-with-bend... [2]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/3/23986187/filmic-…

That kind of proves that one time sales can be a successful business model, doesn't it?

They were a successful business employing 23 people after more than a decade on the one time sales model!

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#97

Post by dylan604 »

dagmx wrote: post #93
dylan604 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think that this company is implying that they made The Matrix or Dune? It is clearly just an example used to aid in the discussion of the surrounding text. There is no claim of "we used this software to make Dune". If they had, you can assume they would have put that out in some sort of call out in their marketing. If you were confused by the image as them trying to take credit, then boy, I don't know.

I don’t know why you default to being hostile. I’m just stating that they’re intermixing it and that can play into whether it is fair use. I’m not saying that I personally am confused. I’m just saying that intermixing it may give people the wrong assumption if they’re not familiar with these films. Remember, the matrix came out 25 years ago. There’s many people who will likely never see it but will be working in film…

You are reading way more into these comments than is actually there. Just because someone challenges something you've written does not mean you are being attacked. There's no notches to take it down from.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#98

Post by janandonly »

I did some quick testing. On my iPhone 15 pro it did not crash as some reported.

But the app did create a video file that has audio backed in at 2x the speed. So halfway true the video the audio stops already.

I guess this is an interesting app to keep eyes on after a few updates.

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#99

Post by volleygman180 »

colechristensen wrote: post #77
dghlsakjg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have been around successfully selling apps with this business model for a lot longer than 2 years, why do you think they plan on changing it?

What happens is you run out of new people to sell your niche app to (or hit a long rather thin tail) while continuing to provide updates for your existing userbase. So you either have to release arbitrary new versions from time to time leaving the old ones neglected and eventually unsupported (or with the overhead of supporting several versions) or you switch to a subscription model. It's happened with so many busine…

Subscription fatigue is very real today, but to your point, as a business you can't provide eternal updates (work) for free.

In the old days, you'd buy a new version of Mac or Windows or any software that you run on it (Office, Parallels, etc.) when you wanted the new features each year.

I think Apple's App Store has a lot to do with why everything is now subscription-based. They used to offer developers a smaller Apple-commission (15%) for subscription sales instead of the typical 30% for in-app purchase sales and paid-apps.

This was great for businesses, but in my opinion, only service businesses should be subscriptions - this transition would help reduce subscription fatigue. Normal software should mostly go back to just issuing new versions each year (or whatever frequency), so that consumers re-frame the purchase cycle to something that feels more reasonable again.

In order for this to occur, however, Apple may need to adjust the App Store algorithms. If you were to launch a new app (ex. "Kino v6"), you'd start all over again from day 1 with 0 app ratings and reviews, and not rank well on any keywords nor in the top apps charts.

Some apps simply rename their app with each new version, but that introduces similar complexities, especially for users who already paid & downloaded the previous "version". So in a big way, the App Store de-incentivizes any kind of transition away from a subscription-based business model.

The "new versions" business model vs. subscription may be similar cost to consumer (it wouldn't support monthly users), but it would allow consumers to only update when their ready and could continue using an old app version (especially on older devices) as long as they'd like. If a customer really likes the software, they'd likely buy the new version to access new features & device support before too long anyhow

Re: Kino: Pro Video Camera

#100

Post by dylan604 »

fassssst wrote: post #90
dylan604 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a way to grade the footage from within the BMD app. Their app seems more designed to take advantage of the ProRes/log captures intended to be used in Resolve Studio. This app allows you to do the grading on your device. So that's a pretty obvious difference. If you're someone using Resolve, you'll probably be enticed by the BMD app as it fits your existing workflow. If you're someone looking to stay on de…

You can apply a LUT to the capture. They also have a good Davinci Resolve iPad app; maybe they'll make an iPhone version in the future.

Applying a LUT is not the same thing as color grading. It's simply applying a LUT. The app that was specifically linked to is not Resolve. It is an app tapping into the new features introduced with the newest model device. If you use the linked app to acquire footage with your phone, you would still need to make that data available to the iPad version of Resolve. Again, this app does not require that at all.
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