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What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

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Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#91

Post by tadfisher »

pessimizer wrote: post #59
tadfisher wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That line of thinking ultimately leads to the conclusion that trust is impossible. If you cannot trust the Norwegian police to produce accurate information, then you must trust the media. If you can't trust the media, then you have to trust strangers on the Internet. If you can't trust strangers on the Internet, you have to trust your friends and family. But what if they're informed by the corrupt police, media, or I…

You're not making a logical argument against the reasoning, you're just saying that a logical argument, ignoring probability at every level, leaves you helpless. Trusting things isn't a solution, it's a cop-out. Instead of a magic formula, you take things on a case-by-case basis, examining sources and possible motives of those sources, looking at past experience with them for hints. This sounds like work because it i…

I am describing the line of reasoning which connects "these photos have Imperial measurements" to "the United States is orchestrating the press release". Please illustrate how this reasoning—given the evidence and our shared reality—demonstrates critical thinking, drawing on past experiences, or examining sources; you know, the stuff that sounds like work.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#92

Post by YZF »

jonathankoren wrote: post #79
YZF wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about most conspiracies is that they need to have some "marginal plausibility" (I just made that term up). The refrigerator example seems going a bit too far. Hormones in milk might do the trick though. Cold drinks like Pepsi and Coke definitely have some potential. Also rather than not having cold drinks going back to using ice boxes is probably the better option. More seriously, we do live in a complex wo…

>The thing about most conspiracies is that they need to have some "marginal plausibility We literally had a wide spread conspiracy about secret DNA editing viruses that were controlled by 5G cellular antennas, because They™ wanted to mind control people and make them sterile for population replacement by Them™. I’d say that it’s not about being plausible in any sort objective sense, but rather a successful conspiracy…

Well, virus can change your DNA. Cell phone towers being everywhere with people not generally understanding how they work or whether they pose health risks is another thing. You need to tell a story that the layman can't readily refute. Crazy government scientists engineering viruses that can be remote controlled by radio signals is "marginally plausible". The fridge story IMO doesn't qualify.

There's another category of fables I'd call "religious fables". Those are ones that can't be falsified. Feels like your other examples fit in those. Religious people believe all sort of things in these categories. They're not really related to the factual reality. This is different IMO from your run of the mill conspiracy theory because those generally have enough counter-evidence where you can make a reason/logic based assessment of the probability of true vs. false. An analogy is flat earthers pointing to some "evidence" that in their mind supports the idea that the earth is flat while ignoring the bulk of evidence demonstrating it's not. Even if you do not have the ability to directly observe whether the earth is flat or not you can weigh the evidence. It's true religion and conspiracy often intersect. Religion by its nature is belief without facts.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#93

Post by BostonFern »

mschuster91 wrote: post #54
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The more you learn about trawling the less you’ll understand why it’s still permitted in so many places. Where I live it’s cut back dramatically, but the bizarre thing is that it’s strictly permitted in territories where we know rare deep sea glass sponge reefs exist, and once thrived. These reefs are islands of immense diversity and biomass which fed huge numbers of transient species moving through the deep…

> We work so hard to regulate our fisheries yet do so little to properly protect the resources they extract from a holistic perspective. Our fish industry is really well connected politically and the large players exactly know how to play the fiddle, and any attempt to hold the foreign ones accountable with actually working and appropriate measures (it's highly likely that it will take live ammunition or an intention…

To add to that, the extent of slavery taking place on fishing vessels operating in international waters is enormous. The laws to board and free captive slaves have been in the books going back to the 1800s in the case of Britain, yet nothing is done about it globally. The media and researchers who detail it are hesitant to even use the term “slavery”.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#96

Post by mvkel »

next_xibalba wrote: post #10

> The critically important cable that connects Svalbard to the mainland is no thicker than a pinkie finger This is amazing. I wonder how much data per unit of time this is capable of transporting. Wikipedia says "Each segment has a speed of 10 gigabits per second (Gb/s), with a future potential capacity of 2,500 Gbit/s." [1] Wikipedia also notes that NASA helped fund this system. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sva…

Wait, an entire mainline for a country can do 10Gb/s and people somehow are paying for gigabit home Ethernet?

Either the former is understated, or the latter is way overkill.

Or, I'm misunderstanding. Which is probably the most likely possibility.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#97

Post by austhrow743 »

lamontcg wrote: post #85
doublepg23 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The Ukrainians are flying drones filled with explosives into Russian refineries and we still don't think it was just the Ukrainians taking out the Russian gas pipeline?

That's a good reason to think it wasn't Ukraine not that it was.

They're in open war with Russia, are openly attacking their resource infrastructure, and are frequently posting excellent high quality footage of it.

Taking out the gas pipeline and then not using the attack for propaganda doesn't fit either their situation or their actions.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#98

Post by gjs4786 »

YZF wrote: post #72
MeImCounting wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is in fact a line between using discretion and critical thinking and falling prey to paranoid superstition. This is important because there are people who prey specifically on people who are vulnurable to conspiratorial thinking and they are very good at it. For about half the population of the US right now if the Daily Wire or like Joe Rogan came out and said that refrigerators are a deep state conspiracy that…

The thing about most conspiracies is that they need to have some "marginal plausibility" (I just made that term up). The refrigerator example seems going a bit too far. Hormones in milk might do the trick though. Cold drinks like Pepsi and Coke definitely have some potential. Also rather than not having cold drinks going back to using ice boxes is probably the better option. More seriously, we do live in a complex wo…

Ahhh, pseudoscience. A refreshing cup of shit, isn't it?

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#99

Post by db48x »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #89

I’m probably being really slow but I couldn’t really work out what the pictures are actually showing. I see a bunch of yellow cables and some with steel sheathing - I’m not really sure what I’m looking at? Are all those cables laid together or are these photos of just one actual cable that has been fully pulled up and coiled?

Yes, that must be the coil of cable after they had started pulling it off of the seabed. The steel armoring is supposed to be a bunch of steel wires tightly wound around the cable, to protect it from damage.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#100

Post by Vegemeister »

YZF wrote: post #72
MeImCounting wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is in fact a line between using discretion and critical thinking and falling prey to paranoid superstition. This is important because there are people who prey specifically on people who are vulnurable to conspiratorial thinking and they are very good at it. For about half the population of the US right now if the Daily Wire or like Joe Rogan came out and said that refrigerators are a deep state conspiracy that…

The thing about most conspiracies is that they need to have some "marginal plausibility" (I just made that term up). The refrigerator example seems going a bit too far. Hormones in milk might do the trick though. Cold drinks like Pepsi and Coke definitely have some potential. Also rather than not having cold drinks going back to using ice boxes is probably the better option. More seriously, we do live in a complex wo…

Seeing as "(leaky and scrapped) refrigerators are damaging the upper atmosphere, allowing ionizing UV to reach the ground and cancering the everyone," actually happened and AFAIK is disputed by almost nobody, it's not that implausible. Hormones in milk is more plausible still because hormones are known to do that kind of thing, but the main knock against the refrigerator idea is that we already have fairly strong protections against leaky fridges because of the ozone.
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