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Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

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Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#91
post #46

Two big reasons people add Reddit to search phrases is because Reddit's search isn't functional and to deprioritise Ad Junk from search. It's to fix broken search, which gets more broken - more unwanted Ad Junk. But Google's an advertising company with it's ad search device in everyone's pocket. At least it's reached sufficient post-don't-be-evil to be honestly shameless, even if it does employ people in PR with brok…

Reddit is the only social network I use. They're really dropping the ball by not having a fantastic search tool. I know search is a difficult problem, but with the kind of budget and engineering power they have it has to be solvable.

For me, search is the least of reddit's problems since it is easily worked around by using a search engine.

The changes to the API pricing were the final nail in the coffin for me, but the content has been going downhill for a decade anyway.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#92
Great article, probably confirming something a lot of people on here have already suspected. But I am honestly shocked at how dire this situation seems.

> Reddit isn't the only winner after Google's recent algorithm updates. SEMrush data shows that other user-generated sites such as Quora and Instagram saw similarly astronomical rises, and there were impressive spikes at LinkedIn and Wikipedia as well.

How can it be that after 20-30 years, it seems they have no way of knowing which sites produce genuine content and which do not?

And what’s worse, in what I can only describe as a frantic search for a solution, they simply turn to the largest players and bump up their weights.

They are killing the grassroots of the internet and when places like Reddit continue their inevitable path of enshittification the internet will be truly dead

Of course the internet is resilient and it will grow again, but we need to get this monopoly back in check fast.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#93
post #40

We need to make bookmarks a common way to access the web again! So many people use Google or other search engines to access even the most basic sites, instead of storing a bookmark or typing out the whole URL. I have used a simple bookmarking strategy in Firefox for some years now, simply storing everything and anything I suspect I might want to retrieve later. I give each bookmark a few quick keywords and store it a…

Yeah, and, along the same lines, directories should perhaps also make a comeback -- like the old Yahoo! Directory or DMOZ. Just a carefully curated and organized list of trusted sites that are made and managed by humans and for humans. Unlike, say, DMOZ, the directory of the future should be easier to navigate and incorporate "modern" features -- and it should also be easily searchable. (All sites on the directory ar…

Could work. We have databases behind PiHole, could have something similar to filter search results.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#95
post #57
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi costs Spotify money, has zero ads, and lets you customise the results.

It also can't fetch more than 2 pages of results for either web or image search. Reverse image search just straight up doesn't work. I don't know why they have it. With searxng, searching at least works. It also has plugins that I think can do some of what Kagi is useful for (but it depends on the instance)

I came here to suggest Kagi. I bloody love it. No ads, ability to remove or downgrade or promote particular sites, lenses, I love it all.

Your comment - honestly, hand on heart, I can’t remember the last time I paged through beyond the first page of any search engine. I didn’t even know Kagi had this “problem” and so I guess I just don’t see it as a problem. But then I realised I’m absolutely in that bit of “must be on first page” internet lore, too…

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#96
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not, they are extremely complementary.

Not necessarily. Internet search algorithms were designed to solve the discoverability problem. LLMs are generative, they're creating content rather than finding it for you. They also serve a different business model. Sure you can have ads in LLM answers similar to Google search results, but Google is also selling clicks. LLMs are designed and used, at least today, to give you the answer so you don't need to see an o…

Seems like the option is constantly retrain an LLM or give it enough tools to interact with new data as needed. For the foreseeable future LLM's are going to need RAG or huge context windows which are effectively equivalent to RAG because you are isolating from some giant corpus your useful information you want the machine to meaningfully interact with.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#97
post #33

I searched for how to use a massage ball (my back hurts) last week and got a giant page full of ads and ad-like sections for buying one with barely any articles at all. That is not a search engine; it's an ads engine.

I reduced my google search engine usage by 90% Just Option+Space and get the answer with ChatGPT for MacOS. No ads, no nonsense, just the answer.

I don’t know why this is getting downvoted. It might be unpopular to use or like ChatGPT among the users of HN but - it’s true, this is one of the quickest ways to get answers for something

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#98

Two big reasons people add Reddit to search phrases is because Reddit's search isn't functional and to deprioritise Ad Junk from search. It's to fix broken search, which gets more broken - more unwanted Ad Junk. But Google's an advertising company with it's ad search device in everyone's pocket. At least it's reached sufficient post-don't-be-evil to be honestly shameless, even if it does employ people in PR with brok…

Back again to say Kagi - where you can promote Reddit results. I have this, and it means the first result I normally get back for search is a Reddit answer.

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#99

> A spokesperson for Google tells the BBC that the company only launches changes to Search after rigorous testing confirms that the shift will be helpful for users, and that the company gives website owners help, resources and opportunities for feedback on their Search rankings. If you believe this I've got a bridge to sell you. The idea that Google does anything other than to improve its bottom line (in the _shortes…

Sell me another bridge then. This is why I believe it:

> Google does anything to improve its bottom line (in the _shortest_ possible timeline)

If the results suck, people would find alternatives. Look at how many techies installed Chrome for their parents and grandparents when MSIE was pre-installed and this was an easier-to-use, standards-compliant, and more performant option. It further snowballed from there. It takes a few years for word to get around but they're well aware that providing useful results is the only way to stay relevant

The problem lies in how Google goes about doing this. People like the (mostly) honest opinions you find on reddit. People like the answer boxes at the top and look no further. My girlfriend is one of the smartest people I know and she doesn't bother reading any further. Any time we look something up together it's a discussion point that I prefer to blindly scroll by the summary and she prefers to not click any result because the answer was already given. One of the most recent times, I could prove the quoted answer was wrong (for once) and that the results clearly gave a better picture in a few more seconds, but it doesn't kill the overall trend where people use this type of summary.

Quite the opposite: a friend made a fun little game that got popular tiktok. I talk to players on discord (because of course walled garden discord is their preferred platform). Any time the topic of searching or learning something comes up, most of them demonstrate 100% of their searches start on chatgpt and usually end there, too

Google knows better than I do (I'm sure they've done proper studies) what they need to do to stay relevant and their answer as of today is adding generated text output that tries to answer your query without having to even look at any results. The summary box on steroids

That this kills small websites is not their problem. All of this may be at the cost of honest content online, but do a Duckduckgo search for comparison: many queries result in pagefuls of content farms that pretend to be review or explanatory websites, looking legit but when you read beyond the first three sentences it's repetitive, baseless, uninsightful, and altogether useless or unreliable at best. I wouldn't know how to distinguish content farms from legit opinion websites at an algorithmic level (perhaps an LLM can make a guess that's often correct, if we think LLM vetting a desirable future), and apparently Google doesn't either because they choose to push sites like reddit and quora instead which, being big brands, everyone already knows are legit sites. I never heard of the air purifier review site the BBC article focuses on, so I can't notice their omission in the search results. Getting content farms is noticeable though and makes me consider which alternative to Duckduckgo I should try out. This thread has been mentioning Kagi, so that'll be something I try later today. Notice how quickly I'm ready to switch away once I find there's something with better results out there

In short, scrapping small or even obscure sites (that we all love, if we can find them) in favor of big names, and replacing needing to look at results yourself, is what Google's internal studies apparently show will keep Google Search relevant and I don't see any evidence to cast doubt upon that. Providing what people evidently want allows them to say what you quoted with a straight face

Re: Google just updated its algorithm. The Internet will never be the same

#100
post #97
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reduced my google search engine usage by 90% Just Option+Space and get the answer with ChatGPT for MacOS. No ads, no nonsense, just the answer.

I don’t know why this is getting downvoted. It might be unpopular to use or like ChatGPT among the users of HN but - it’s true, this is one of the quickest ways to get answers for something

Answers, sure. Bit you'll never know if those are answers, bullshit, trolling, or straight up hallucinations. So no, it's not an option at all.
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