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ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel’s minister of national security has explicitly said he wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza. https://x.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1792891809498022385

Do you speak hebrew? I don't see subtitles to that video, where do you get that?

Subtitled version here https://x.com/TranslateMom/status/1793230643104485487

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that law is slightly more limited - they reserve the right to invade anyone who attempts to prosecute US citizens and particularly US military in international courts. I don't think it extends this type of protection to allies. At least the infamous "Hague Invasion Act" doesn't.

Section 2008 https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ206/html/PLA... > (a) Authority.--The President is authorized to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any person described in subsection (b) who is being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court. > (b) Persons Authorized To Be Freed.--The authority of subsection (a) shall…

What does covered mean here? Who is covered?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait is that a statement in support of Hamas? Or is it just unethical actions from Palestinians that get that treatment? Otherwise wouldn't an occupation followed by a blockade count as an unethical action that doesn't merit an ethical response?

The day ICJ goes after the political and financial supporters of Hamas and orders Hamas to stop using the people of Palestine as live shields to bear the brunt of the Israeli wrath will be the day when I will agree with the ICJ.

'I will agree with the court when it agrees with me and does what I want' is certainly a position.

I'm sure most criminal suspects and their supporters [0] feel the same way, and would love for their personal judgement to be so favored. Putin, for example.

0: This is a sensitive topic, so to be extra clear, I am referring to the criminal case against Bibi in the ICC and the genocide case against Israel and Hamas in the ICJ, and those who support the defendants in the 1st of those and half or more of the defendants in the other.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has nuclear weapons and more economic power than the UK. And yet the UK has a veto, and India does not. Also, only one of the P5 powers had nuclear weapons when the UN Charter was signed.

The UN was created when india was a subservient colony of britain. When veto powers were being given out, india didn't exist as an independent country. That's why the UK has veto power while india doesn't. There definitely needs to be a rebalancing of power within the UN but none of the P5 want their power diluted. And they have the all powerful veto power.

We've switched who has veto powers before. Soviet Union to Russia and the Republic of China to the People's Republic of China.

There is no reason we can't replace another government.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That may be so, but I doubt it, this was Hamas's most successful attack in history, and will never happen again, with or without Israel's genocide of unrelated Palestinians. The claim that Israel definitively saved >35,000 lives by killing as many, is simply implausible. And that's to say nothing of the denial of (and attacking of) supplies. Having said that, none if it justifies the crimes or racial discrimination I…

I think an argument can be made that validating human shield tactics may result in much greater loss of live in the long term. More groups will use such tactics, and groups which don't value human life will gain leverage over those that do. It's hard to predict long term geopolitical effects, but it seems like a pretty dangerous trend.

If you don't buy that though, it still seems reasonable enough for Israel to prioritize their own security. It may not be morally correct from a utilitarian perspective, but it's what pretty much any country would do, just as any parent would save their own child first in an emergency.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Section 2008 https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-107publ206/html/PLA... > (a) Authority.--The President is authorized to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any person described in subsection (b) who is being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court. > (b) Persons Authorized To Be Freed.--The authority of subsection (a) shall…

What does covered mean here? Who is covered?

Section 2013:

> (3) Covered allied persons.--The term ``covered allied persons'' means military personnel, elected or appointed officials, and other persons employed by or working on behalf of the government of a NATO member country, a major non-NATO ally (including Australia, Egypt, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Argentina, the Republic of Korea, and New Zealand), or Taiwan, for so long as that government is not a party to the International Criminal Court and wishes its officials and other persons working on its behalf to be exempted from the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.

> (4) Covered united states persons.--The term ``covered United States persons'' means members of the Armed Forces of the United States, elected or appointed officials of the United States Government, and other persons employed by or working on behalf of the United States Government, for so long as the United States is not a party to the International Criminal Court.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The day ICJ goes after the political and financial supporters of Hamas and orders Hamas to stop using the people of Palestine as live shields to bear the brunt of the Israeli wrath will be the day when I will agree with the ICJ.

'I will agree with the court when it agrees with me and does what I want' is certainly a position. I'm sure most criminal suspects and their supporters [0] feel the same way, and would love for their personal judgement to be so favored. Putin, for example. 0: This is a sensitive topic, so to be extra clear, I am referring to the criminal case against Bibi in the ICC and the genocide case against Israel and Hamas in t…

It is easier to agree with judgements that help resolve conflicts. This one aims to deliver justice to victims on both sides, but doesn't resolve the core issue, doesn't even name all parties responsible for this bloodbath. Hamas is a proxy for other players and has been using Palestinians as a human shield in their fight against Israel. The core issue in that conflict is religion. It is used to derail any attempts at resolving the situation or provide a path to peace; it is used to drape revenge in the veil of "justice" on both sides. There is no reason why both sides could not work together on resolving their issues, but religion will not allow it. Therefore, courts will be issuing judgements that only add to the feeling of injustice and won't resolve the core issue.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#98
Forced illegal settlements are also a war crime, one of very few actions that even the US has condemned along with the wider international community. Can one justify over 50 years of belligerence? Does Hamas operate in the West bank? Remind me how long Hamas has been around to use human shields in a region governed by a separate authority?

My dad was once judged as a terrorist for his role in resisting a racist, apartheid government. He was interestingly transformed into a senior officer of the army that spent decades indiscriminately bombing anywhere he was supposedly operating from. He was broken by the guilt of visiting villages out of starvation only to have the blood of innocent families on his hands for showing solidarity with his struggle. The people who would throw similar accusations of using human shields to justify their barbarity were now his colleagues, brothers in arms who he would spend the rest of his career fighting alongside.

One of his superiors, Nelson Mandela, had a lot to say about Palestine. The world celebrates his efforts to convince people like my father to forgive at the cost of leaving a trauma that will persist through the souls of their descendants.

This brazen denial of the reality that a fellow human will relentlessly defend is beyond clinic insanity for people who have significantly less emotional attachment to this conflict than myself. The lack of self awareness for the sake of self-preservation alone is concerning.

I'm glad all of this self indicting astro-turfing has been shared publicly. I want peace for all humanity, but I can't see anyone making a sound case for truth and reconciliation when the dust settles, and it is time for accountability.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nakba happened (which is illegal to even talk about in Israel) This is very inaccurate, the actual law is described here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_Law#Provisions

> 4. Referring to the Israeli Independence Day or the founding day of the country as a day of mourning. So you are not allowed to call it the Nakba, or describe it as anything but something to celebrate as long as you receive funding from the government. I don’t know how the media, libraries, schools or other institutions work in Israel, but in Iceland this would pretty much amount to a ban, as almost all media, and…

> in Iceland this would pretty much amount to a ban, as almost all media, and institutions receive at least some funding from the government

skill issue.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#100
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN was created when india was a subservient colony of britain. When veto powers were being given out, india didn't exist as an independent country. That's why the UK has veto power while india doesn't. There definitely needs to be a rebalancing of power within the UN but none of the P5 want their power diluted. And they have the all powerful veto power.

We've switched who has veto powers before. Soviet Union to Russia and the Republic of China to the People's Republic of China. There is no reason we can't replace another government.

Both of those cases involve the dissolution of the state holding the veto power. While dissolving the UK would be hilarious, I imagine they would veto it.
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